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14er Peak Checklists

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby susanjoypaul » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:42 am

MountainHiker wrote:
susanjoypaul wrote:
Whenever I clean out a quad (summit all the ranked peaks within a quadrangle) my hiking buddy usually says, on the top of the final peak, "Well, I guess we won't have to come back here again."

That’s not how I think. With almost every mountain I know there’s a good chance I will come back again. I like to get new peaks, but I also like to revisit peaks. To me the main thing is to climb something. I’ve never been afraid of repeats. I haven’t gone as after some of the lower peaks as much as some. But now this thirteener list has got me re-noticing some mountains I’ve been meaning to climb.


If you read the rest of that post, you'll see that's just my initial, gut reaction to summiting the peak. If I *really* felt that way I wouldn't have summited Pikes seven times :-)

Another advantage of having additional 14,000+ foot summits, is for training purposes. When I was altitude training for Ecuador earlier this year, and trying to get above 14K every weekend for the month and a half leading up to the trip, I had three options: (1) repeat 14ers, (2) do the ones I had left, under *very* adverse conditions, or (3) look at the unranked list, and see what was possible. I chose #3, and it worked out splendidly. New summits, and a perfect training schedule that had me more than acclimated for a 20K' push. Even though the trip was cursed with dangerous avalanche conditions, AMS was never an issue.

Now the 13er list, that's another story. I don't think I'll ever run out of those...

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby MountainHiker » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:08 am

Weegie5 wrote:Why isn't Sunlight Spire one of the grey unnamed "peaks" listed?

These lists are based on the elevations on the published USGS paper quad maps. Those maps are on the older National Geodetic Vertical Datum of 1929. The newer NAVD 88 resulted in higher elevations often around 7 feet for mountain tops. Unlabelled Sunlight Spire has a spot height of 13995 on the quad map. It will be interesting to see what happens with that spot height on the new generation of US Topo digital maps.
http://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/index.html
Red, Rugged, and Rotten: The Elk Range - Borneman & Lampert

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby MountainHiker » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:31 am

susanjoypaul wrote:
MountainHiker wrote:
susanjoypaul wrote:
Whenever I clean out a quad (summit all the ranked peaks within a quadrangle) my hiking buddy usually says, on the top of the final peak, "Well, I guess we won't have to come back here again."

That’s not how I think. With almost every mountain I know there’s a good chance I will come back again. I like to get new peaks, but I also like to revisit peaks. To me the main thing is to climb something. I’ve never been afraid of repeats. I haven’t gone as after some of the lower peaks as much as some. But now this thirteener list has got me re-noticing some mountains I’ve been meaning to climb.


If you read the rest of that post, you'll see that's just my initial, gut reaction to summiting the peak. If I *really* felt that way I wouldn't have summited Pikes seven times :-)

Another advantage of having additional 14,000+ foot summits, is for training purposes. When I was altitude training for Ecuador earlier this year, and trying to get above 14K every weekend for the month and a half leading up to the trip, I had three options: (1) repeat 14ers, (2) do the ones I had left, under *very* adverse conditions, or (3) look at the unranked list, and see what was possible. I chose #3, and it worked out splendidly. New summits, and a perfect training schedule that had me more than acclimated for a 20K' push. Even though the trip was cursed with dangerous avalanche conditions, AMS was never an issue.

Now the 13er list, that's another story. I don't think I'll ever run out of those...

Susan, I didn’t mean to suggest you were afraid to repeat summits. Obviously your friend was saying that somewhat tongue in check. I have however climbed with people who suffer severe cases of repeataphobia.

Training for higher mountains elsewhere has been one of many reasons for repeating 13ers and 14ers. Some of these climbs have been when the weather was marginal. I considered it prudent to repeat an easy access low avalanche risk route that I already knew really well. Using it for an opportunity to go after some of those sub-peaks was a good idea!
Red, Rugged, and Rotten: The Elk Range - Borneman & Lampert

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby George James » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:53 am

"Tongue in check?" Ha!

I wonder if the core checklisters get a kick out of going out to dinner and exclaiming "Check Please!"

MountainHiker is my hero. Aww check, Susan is too.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby susanjoypaul » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:47 pm

MountainHiker wrote:Susan, I didn’t mean to suggest you were afraid to repeat summits. Obviously your friend was saying that somewhat tongue in check. I have however climbed with people who suffer severe cases of repeataphobia.

Training for higher mountains elsewhere has been one of many reasons for repeating 13ers and 14ers. Some of these climbs have been when the weather was marginal. I considered it prudent to repeat an easy access low avalanche risk route that I already knew really well. Using it for an opportunity to go after some of those sub-peaks was a good idea!

No offense taken ;-) And amen to choosing a safe route over a new one - heck, our last "altitude training hike" was a drive up Mount Evans road! All the altitude, none of the wear and tear on our legs. We punted the short hike up to the summit, from the parking lot, due to the high winds.

George James wrote:MountainHiker is my hero.

He's my hero too. When I was doing Orizaba I met a teenager from New York who had just done Izta the day before, with "some really experienced guy from 14ers.com that I met on the trail." It was the kid's first time in crampons. That "guy" was MountainHiker.

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby Bacchus » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:29 pm

Hit West Evans and didn't even know it. Kinda on accident too, I didn't follow the trail and stayed on top of the ridge instead of skirting it like i did on the way back. Nice suprise
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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby weschun » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:57 am

Cooper is sgladbach's mountaineering wunderdog
I'm striving to be the man my dog thinks I am.

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby susanjoypaul » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:07 pm

cvrti5 wrote:In summary, I think lists can be dangerous. That's all I'm trying to say (and I'm an anti-list INTP).

Lists *can* be dangerous. I guess I should have prefaced this whole conversation with that very critical, yet often overlooked, disclaimer.

Welcome to The Lists. The first rule of The Lists is: you do not talk about The Lists. The second rule of The Lists is: you DO NOT talk about The Lists! Third rule of The Lists: the lists are bare knuckle. No weapons (other than harsh words shared on the Internet, of course).

It starts out innocently enough, with the "gateway" list: the 14ers. Just a few blunts during the summer - Bierstadt, Sherman, Quandary - seems mellow enough, harmless, no problem, right? "It's nothing," you tell yourself, "I can quit anytime." But you're hooked, and before you know it you're onto the hard stuff... the Crestones, the Bells, and not the easy trails either, you're looking for the most technical routes out there 'cause it's the only way you can get a decent high anymore! Pretty soon that peak-dealer introduces you to a whole new list, the 13ers. Before you know it you're snorting unranked summits cut with winter ascents, shooting up ultras, and mainlining state highpoints just for kicks!

I knew I had hit rock bottom last week: 4 a.m., my son wanders in from an all-American, healthy night out drinking with the fellas. I was packing. "Where are you going, Mom?" I couldn't look him in the eyes. "It's The Lists, isn't it?" What could I say? I guess he had had enough...

"Mom, you gotta stop! Remember a few years ago, before The Lists? You weighed a hundred and seventy-five pounds and smoked a pack of cigarettes a day. Look at you! You've lost 40 pounds and your cholesterol is down to 129! And you haven't touched a smoke since Rainier. Look at what this is doing to you!"

He was right, of course. I couldn't stop. I wanted to, but I couldn't.

"C'mon, Mom, I'll help you through this. Stop packing. I got a couple of PBRs in the fridge... I'll make you a big bowl of Cap'n Crunch - no milk - and we'll watch Sponge Bob."

I don't know why I couldn't say yes, but I just couldn't. I couldn't, because of The Lists.

"I'll even go to 7-11 and get you a nice pack of butts - Pall Mall, no filter. Remember that Pooh Bear ashtray you had in my nursery when I was a baby?"

"I threw that out years ago!"

"I fished it out of the trash can. I sleep with it under my pillow, Mom. It reminds me of the old days, before... The Lists. Let me help you. Help me, help you."

With a tear in my eye, I left him there, with a big box of cereal in one hand and the remote in the other. I think he was crying too, but I couldn't tell 'cause it was 4 a.m. and really pretty dark out there on the front porch.

In summary, anything can be dangerous, if you're an idiot about it. People choke to death on ice cream cones and crack their skulls tripping over their own shoelaces. If I'm going to stay safe, I'd be better served avoiding Death by Work Stress, Death by Trans Fats, or Death by Sitting on my Arse on the Couch All Day Watching Mindless Television, and not worry so much about what the lists might be doing to me. ‘Cause to tell you the truth, so far, so good!

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby MountainHiker » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:19 pm

susanjoypaul wrote:
It starts out innocently enough, with the "gateway" list: the 14ers.

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby Jim Davies » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:14 pm

Erik Weihenmeyer blindly followed a list, and it worked out well for him.
Some people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of white blood cells.

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby Papillon » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:34 pm

susanjoypaul wrote:It starts out innocently enough, with the "gateway" list: the 14ers. Just a few blunts during the summer - Bierstadt, Sherman, Quandary - seems mellow enough, harmless, no problem, right?


But the last thing you want to do is start mixing lists. You start messing with the synergistic effects and it can lead to some dark, dark places. Trust me, I've been there. Take Meeker and Longs via The Loft aka "The Front Range Speedball". You've got a Boulder County highpoint, a RMNP highpoint, a Longs Peak quad highpoint, an Allenspark quad highpoint, etc.

A buddy of mine got in over his head on this and was found wandering around the Bent Gate parking lot wearing only his underwear and crampons, reciting the Storm King Peak quad highpoints in some kind of dead language (at least that is what came out in the courtroom testimony). I think the fact that it was July in Golden is what swung the jury against him.

Last I heard he was living in his parents basement in Florida - ohhhh, the horrors...
The look in his eyes when it hit - Kid, it was tasty... - William Seward Burroughs

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Re: 14er Peak Checklists

Postby Doug Shaw » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:10 pm

cvrti5 wrote:No lists! LIST + ME = 0.


If we solve your equation for ME, it tells us that you're nothing.

(The math is sound, even if the English is a bit funky...)

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