1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

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crossfitter
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by crossfitter »

BHallDDS wrote: Yeah, what still gets me is the decision to ascend into Keplinger's with the weather the way it was. ... If you were truly "experienced in the backcountry" you'd at least talk about bail outs that right?
You mean like this bail out?
At about 1pm on September 12th, we made the decision to attempt to descend the gully and make it to the ranger station. The excessive water from snowmelt and rain had turned the rock surface into a mudslide. The center of the gully was gone, and in its place was a rushing flood of mud, water, falling boulders, and rocks. We slowly and carefully downclimbed and several hours later made it into the valley, putting the exposure of Longs Peak behind us. We continued climbing down the valley, bushwacking through extremely rough terrain, rock ledges, tree fall, thick vegetation, and pooling water in steady rain. At this point, even with the hard work, we were still shivering uncontrollably. The river and stream volumes were many times their normal flow. We set up camp for the night and at first light continued onwards in cold rain.
With the storm hitting when it did, their options were poor and limited. You don't always have the choice of just walking down the trail when things get bad. That's just how some routes are.

Edit: To be clear, I am not anti-discussion or anti-analysis. I think this is an interesting case study and a pretty good example of how to manage a crisis and successfully self-rescue. However, the attempts to second-guess in hindsight aren't going to teach anyone anything. If anything we should be applauding them for being prepared and level-headed enough to get themselves out of the mess.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack

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Oman
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by Oman »

The fun thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.
The crazy thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.

Fine with me as long as they stay off my lawn.
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lodgling
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by lodgling »

Maybe we can agree to focus some criticism on Backpacker?

Granted, I've only been on Keplinger's twice and I was going down both times, but isn't this a crappy way to climb it?

http://www.backpacker.com/media/origina ... 95507.jpeg

Isn't it much better to stay climber's left in the gulley/couloir and avoid most of the traversing below Palisades? Or is the route drawn in red the way to do it (if at all) when the snow is gone?
Last edited by lodgling on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rickinco123
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by rickinco123 »

4 Weeks ago I did the Keplingers route. Their account makes no sense to me. Why were they looking for Clark's arrow? What beta would have told them to do that? They needed to head toward the homestretch which is fairly obvious and well cairned. Did they end up on the Loft? Did they exit out Keplingers? If the exited Keplingers in that weather they are tough as hell and lucky to be alive. After descending the crappiest climbing I have just about ever done in the couloir, they would enter a gentle but water logged basin and then, if they did not strictly stay near Hunter's Creek, they would have to climb over MASSIVE boulder fields inside of forested areas combined with horrendous deadfall.

The only mistake I see here is pushing ahead with their Keplinger's climb in that weather, I am amazed the ascent in the couloir did not deter them, but they took a calculated risk on unknown terrain and got screwed. That happens sometimes.

Wonder if they will be back to Longs?
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rickinco123
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by rickinco123 »

lodgling wrote:
Isn't it much better to stay climber's left in the gulley/couloir and avoid most of the traversing below Palisades? Or is the route drawn in red the way to do it when the snow is gone?
Descending on left side keeps you away from handwork and exposure but it is like walking on ball bearing on top of mud.

In my opinion the right side ( as you descend ), is more intimidating to look at, requires scrambliing, but way more secure. If comfortable with downclimbing, right is the way to go.

Honestly, this F'n gulley is a snow climb. I will never put myself through that again while it is dry, no way.
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coloradokevin
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by coloradokevin »

Oman wrote:The fun thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.
The crazy thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.

Fine with me as long as they stay off my lawn.
Lol.


djkest wrote:They were prepared in a number of ways, and once the storm hit it sounds like they made good decisions and fought hard to survive. The hike out must have been very difficult.

However; If on MONDAY the weather got worse and TUESDAY it was still bad, it was risky for them to go ahead and climb high on Longs Peak. I know hindsight is 20/20 and so they didn't know what was coming.

According to them:

Monday: Weather turns worse, continue hiking
Tuesday: Weather sucks, continue hiking on a committed route
Wednesday morning: Weather sucks, lets go summit a class 3 14er with routefinding challenges
That's pretty much it in an nutshell. Others can argue that there's nothing wrong with that decision making, but the hikers who made those decisions are the ones who (by their own admission) nearly froze to death on a mountain, and blindly attempted to request a search and rescue via a dying cellphone with no service. Did they do the right thing by requesting rescue when they did? Absolutely, they were in a bad bind at the time. But, does the decision to climb that route, in that weather, after three days of worsening weather, make sense? Not really, at least to me.
Last edited by coloradokevin on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
BHallDDS
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by BHallDDS »

crossfitter wrote:
BHallDDS wrote: Yeah, what still gets me is the decision to ascend into Keplinger's with the weather the way it was. ... If you were truly "experienced in the backcountry" you'd at least talk about bail outs that right?
You mean like this bail out?
At about 1pm on September 12th, we made the decision to attempt to descend the gully and make it to the ranger station. The excessive water from snowmelt and rain had turned the rock surface into a mudslide. The center of the gully was gone, and in its place was a rushing flood of mud, water, falling boulders, and rocks. We slowly and carefully downclimbed and several hours later made it into the valley, putting the exposure of Longs Peak behind us. We continued climbing down the valley, bushwacking through extremely rough terrain, rock ledges, tree fall, thick vegetation, and pooling water in steady rain. At this point, even with the hard work, we were still shivering uncontrollably. The river and stream volumes were many times their normal flow. We set up camp for the night and at first light continued onwards in cold rain.
With the storm hitting when it did, their options were poor and limited. You don't always have the choice of just walking down the trail when things get bad. That's just how some routes are.

Edit: To be clear, I am not anti-discussion or anti-analysis. I think this is an interesting case study and a pretty good example of how to manage a crisis and successfully self-rescue. However, the attempts to second-guess in hindsight aren't going to teach anyone anything. If anything we should be applauding them for being prepared and level-headed enough to get themselves out of the mess.
"At daybreak, visibility was very poor with driving rain. When visibility improved slightly, we still had time to cover the short but difficult distance to our intended campsite."

That's their account. Again, the storm was ongoing. And the distance to the Boulderfield is yes short, but it's the most difficult and committed part of their entire loop. Anyone who has done the Narrows would tell you doing it when slick is an absolute nightmare. I quite honestly want to stop hearing tragedies about people dying up on Longs. I realize it's gonna happen but good lord. They are lucky they didn't die or have someone die trying to get them.

I completely disagree with anyone that says it's second guessing. It's not that at all. It's called analyzing a situation, what happened, what risks were taken, etc and learning from them for future situations. Some people choose to go into certain situations with certain knowledge, certain equipment. That's life, people are just different on how they handle risky endeavors. I'm absolutely impressed with how they figured out a way to get down and deal with the situation at hand. Once they were up into Keplinger's, I think they made great decisions to save their lives. However, I guarantee you these two women will think much differently in the future when doing anything similar. And you know what, if I go back into Keplinger's again soon...you know what I'll have in the back of my mind. This story among the many others.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by ajkagy »

Oman wrote:The fun thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.
The crazy thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.

Fine with me as long as they stay off my lawn.
haha golden
http://wanderingthemountains.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BHallDDS
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by BHallDDS »

rickinco123 wrote:4 Weeks ago I did the Keplingers route. Their account makes no sense to me. Why were they looking for Clark's arrow? What beta would have told them to do that? They needed to head toward the homestretch which is fairly obvious and well cairned. Did they end up on the Loft? Did they exit out Keplingers? If the exited Keplingers in that weather they are tough as hell and lucky to be alive. After descending the crappiest climbing I have just about ever done in the couloir, they would enter a gentle but water logged basin and then, if they did not strictly stay near Hunter's Creek, they would have to climb over MASSIVE boulder fields inside of forested areas combined with horrendous deadfall.

The only mistake I see here is pushing ahead with their Keplinger's climb in that weather, I am amazed the ascent in the couloir did not deter them, but they took a calculated risk on unknown terrain and got screwed. That happens sometimes.

Wonder if they will be back to Longs?
I think's it's accepted as this point they came down Keplinger's and went out to Hunter's Creek from the lake. Yes, a horrendous descent. Not sure how they kept it together. Also, hard to believe they didn't fall and break a leg/ankle. As far as what beta, not sure because Clark's arrow is when you are coming from the Loft but the BackPacker route described does mention it and then perhaps they focused on that as a trailmarker. The route description of Keplinger's on here is a snowclimb and doesn't mention the arrow at all.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by smoove »

Oman wrote:The fun thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.
The crazy thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.

Fine with me as long as they stay off my lawn.
Nice work.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by martinleroux »

rickinco123 wrote:Their account makes no sense to me. Why were they looking for Clark's arrow? What beta would have told them to do that? They needed to head toward the homestretch which is fairly obvious and well cairned. Did they end up on the Loft? Did they exit out Keplingers?
Their account seems clear enough. When they refer to Clark's Arrow they mean the final part of the traverse that starts at the Loft, crosses Keplinger's and finishes up the Homestretch. The traverse to the Homestretch may be fairly obvious in normal conditions but at the time visibility was down to 20-30'. There's nothing in their account to suggest they were looking for the painted arrow itself, and they certainly weren't trying to do the traverse in reverse back to the Loft. It's also clear that they descended the way they came up, i.e. Keplinger's.
Last edited by martinleroux on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Post by Hungry Jack »

Oman wrote:The fun thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.
The crazy thing about so many 20-somethings on this site is that they are so cocksure.

Fine with me as long as they stay off my lawn.
LOL.

There is significant evidence that suggests that the part of our brain that monitors risk is not fully developed until one is well past age 20. Explains a lot.
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