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Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby Doug Shaw » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:42 pm

snowmanco wrote:I mean seriously, who uses a gun as a replacement for a whistle (besides track and field officials).


Uh, hunters?

Three sequential shots from a gun means the same as three blasts from a whistle: "HELP!"

Of course, the whistle is less painful if its blast hits you. :mrgreen:

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:00 pm

Hunters - absolutely.

When you're out in the wilderness where a whistle blow won't carry very far, three gun shots is the protocol in an emergency although we use radios when hunting in a group. And still bring a cell and sat phone.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sivadselim » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:01 pm

Doug Shaw wrote:Three sequential shots from a gun means the same as three blasts from a whistle: "HELP!"

Personally, I don't think I will be heading to check out 3 sequential shots from a gun. Another story if I hear a whistle, though.

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby Doug Shaw » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:16 pm

sivadselim wrote:
Doug Shaw wrote:Three sequential shots from a gun means the same as three blasts from a whistle: "HELP!"

Personally, I don't think I will be heading to check out 3 sequential shots from a gun. Another story if I hear a whistle, though.


That's certainly your prerogative.

If I hear lots of gunfire obviously I won't respond if they fire three shots in the middle of a barrage of 100 other shots. If I hear three shots from silence, that will get my attention - but I might not respond immediately after a single blast of three shots. Usually it's not going to be ONLY three shots - just like a whistle blast, they will probably be repeating the signal as often as resources allow. Three shots, a few minutes pass, three shots, a few minutes pass, etc. If it's a repeated pattern that's a pretty clear signal, then you bet I'll be setting out to find them and attempting to reach out for more resources.

I will try to find them while very clearly and audibly establishing some form of contact with them, for two purposes:
a) to let them know that someone heard them and is coming into the area (because while I'm not paranoid about guns, I'm not stupid either - someone is firing off a gun and I certainly want them to know that I'm there), and
b) more accurately ascertaining their location.

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sivadselim » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:37 pm

Doug Shaw wrote:
sivadselim wrote:
Doug Shaw wrote:Three sequential shots from a gun means the same as three blasts from a whistle: "HELP!"

Personally, I don't think I will be heading to check out 3 sequential shots from a gun. Another story if I hear a whistle, though.


That's certainly your prerogative.

If I hear lots of gunfire obviously I won't respond if they fire three shots in the middle of a barrage of 100 other shots. If I hear three shots from silence, that will get my attention - but I might not respond immediately after a single blast of three shots. Usually it's not going to be ONLY three shots - just like a whistle blast, they will probably be repeating the signal as often as resources allow. Three shots, a few minutes pass, three shots, a few minutes pass, etc. If it's a repeated pattern that's a pretty clear signal, then you bet I'll be setting out to find them and attempting to reach out for more resources.

Right. Didn't mean to come off sounding aloof. If someone is trying to get my attention with a gun, they can probably succeed at doing so.

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby 54summits » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:58 pm

snowmanco wrote:I'm really the only one who's concerned that he's thinking about carrying a gun on future hikes?! :shock:

I mean seriously, who uses a gun as a replacement for a whistle (besides track and field officials).


:?

#-o

Three things:

1) I never said I was taking a firearm with me on future hikes. You might have inferred that, and if you did, you were wrong. It is not at all what I said.

2) On 14er hikes, the potential need and use of a firearm is not nearly great enough to justify carrying it (in my mind).

3) I like the mountains the way they are -- politics-free. Pro-gun, anti-gun... Shut up and hike! :wink:

-54s

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby CO Native » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:56 pm

Well you certainly are a character. Don't get yourself killed, I look forward to reading more entertaining reports and watching the videos. :D
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sam » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:32 pm

tmathews-you wrote and (I am sorry I don't know how to reply direct to your question, so I copied and pasted)

I want to thank you for posting this. I know that there are a number of SAR members from various agencies who are members of 14ers.com (CO Native, K G Wright, tenpins, dfish -- and, of course, CCSARCAP -- just to name a few) and was hoping that someone who had responded to a SPOT SOS would chime-in. As a SPOT owner myself, I have been curious about how emergency and SAR officials are alerted and the logisitics of deployment. I have joked a few times with my climbing buddies about using the SPOT to get off of a mountain, but I promise you this: I will not use the SOS button unless I (or a member of my party) am injured and not capable of getting off of a mountain without the assistance of others. A question: If someone does press SOS and then cancels it, does he/she incur any indemnity costs? It can't be cheap to muster the manpower and resources for a search and recovery effort -- even if they hadn't officially deployed.

As a member of Mountain Rescue Aspen we have had several SPOT activations. Some have been legitimate calls for help, while others have been false alarms or mis activations (carry the SPOT in a tupperware container!). One of the biggest challenges we face is getting updates on positions sent from the activated SPOT. Obviously if is the same location each transmission then it is a no brainer, but we have had false alarms and injured or people someone in trouble continuing to move.

The problem is that It normally takes the folks from SPOT 15+ minutes or more to give us updated locations, often after we call them.

Ideally we would like to login in to your account and get real time locations (we don't care about anything else on your account). Our team has had several conversations with the folks at SPOT to solve this delay dilemma. Unfortunately they will not release personal login information but they have been trying to work on a solution but not luck as of yet.

Our suggestion is to make sure that someone on your alert list has permission to grant the sheriff and/or local SAR team access to your login and password information. This can save us and other SAR teams a ton of time.

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby tmathews » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:37 pm

sam wrote:As a member of Mountain Rescue Aspen we have had several SPOT activations. Some have been legitimate calls for help, while others have been false alarms or mis activations (carry the SPOT in a tupperware container!). One of the biggest challenges we face is getting updates on positions sent from the activated SPOT. Obviously if is the same location each transmission then it is a no brainer, but we have had false alarms and injured or people someone in trouble continuing to move.

The problem is that It normally takes the folks from SPOT 15+ minutes or more to give us updated locations, often after we call them.

Ideally we would like to login in to your account and get real time locations (we don't care about anything else on your account). Our team has had several conversations with the folks at SPOT to solve this delay dilemma. Unfortunately they will not release personal login information but they have been trying to work on a solution but not luck as of yet.

Our suggestion is to make sure that someone on your alert list has permission to grant the sheriff and/or local SAR team access to your login and password information. This can save us and other SAR teams a ton of time.


Sam,

Thank you for this information. I will ensure that my alert list contacts have this information and that I implicitly release the information to SAR teams.

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sam » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:38 pm

Tmathews you also wrote:

A question: If someone does press SOS and then cancels it, does he/she incur any indemnity costs? It can't be cheap to muster the manpower and resources for a search and recovery effort -- even if they hadn't officially deployed.

Rescue is Colorado is always free (from the SAR teams). As Paul Woodward said, above, once you have activated please do not turn it off, we would like to contact you to make sure everything is okay

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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby CO Native » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Our team has struggled with the same issues with SPOT. It doesn't make sense the only thing your account holds is info about your location. Which you'd think since an emergency button has been pressed that the info is OK to release to SAR. Anyway, I made my public page show all info so if I ever activate it anyone can go see my location.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby tmathews » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:16 pm

sam wrote:Tmathews you also wrote:

A question: If someone does press SOS and then cancels it, does he/she incur any indemnity costs? It can't be cheap to muster the manpower and resources for a search and recovery effort -- even if they hadn't officially deployed.

Rescue is Colorado is always free (from the SAR teams). As Paul Woodward said, above, once you have activated please do not turn it off, we would like to contact you to make sure everything is okay


Duly noted. I would feel extremely guilty about sending an SOS and then cancelling it, though. Not only for my emergency contacts -- but for SAR members as well.

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