What are the top 10 toughest 13ers/12ers?

[polar]

He's a top notch internationally certified guide. I went on to use hiking boots for a number of the technical alpine climbs I've done since then where the rock is not crag quality (again, following, not leading) for routes rated up to 5.7, and was not unhappy with how it worked. With good rock, I'd want rock shoes.

I agree with your guide. The smooth sole of rock climbing shoes are great for clean rock, but tend to be slippery on loose surfaces generally found on easier terrain or on alpine routes (dirt, sand, lichen, moss, grass, etc). Anything with a little bit of tread pattern will do better than rock shoes on these. So coincidentally, I've been leading easier alpine routes (below 5.7) with just approach shoes, and I've been pretty happy with them.

[TomPierce]

Agree with Polar. For anything up to 5.7-ish I use approach boots. Fwiw, I've been using 5.10 Guide Exums, a mid-height boot with sticky rubber soles, but with a regular boot tread pattern. Even has an edging platform under the ball of the foot. Very nice for scrambles, both desert and alpine. It's what I often take backpacking, but not very good in the water repellency department, even with a couple of coats of Scotchgard.

-Tom

[dhgold]

Agree that on easy 5th class alpine terrain a good approach shoe or mountain boot is often preferable to rock climbing shoes for a variety of reasons. My point was that I do not feel that is the case of Turret Ridge and wonder what the reasoning of Teresa's guide was in recommending hiking boots over climbing shoes for "that kind of rock". The serious pitches of Turret are vertical climbing on loose cobbles, the two hardest of which are in a corner. I felt rock shoes provided an advantage in that situation because the 1. extra sensitivity gave me a better sense as to whether a foothold might blow 2. rock shoes allowed me to more precisely position my feet on the cobbles, minimizing failure inducing leverage 3. the high friction rubber on the rock shoes allowed me on occasion to stem/smear on the matrix, avoiding the cobbles altogether 4. the superior edging of rock shoes allowed me to comfortably use small edges in the divots left where cobbles had fallen out. The third, more serious but easier 5th class pitch on Turret is a pure traverse on pretty big (but quite loose) holds where climbing shoes probably wouldn't make as much difference though I would still prefer them. About 2/3 of the vertical on Turret is gained on lower angle slabs (slightly gravelly) where a sticky rubber approach shoe would probably be preferable to a climbing shoe.

Advantages I can think of to wearing hiking boots or approach shoes on Turret:
1. Better for kicking out loose footholds. 2. More comfortable which over the course of hours could make a time a difference should a climber feel a need to remove his or her shoes at belays. 3. Save a little time not carrying them and not having to change into them.

In balance, the idea that rock shoes are not preferable for vertical climbing on cobbles seems ill founded. I don't remember anyone climbing in anything but rock shoes at Maple Canyon or Riglos. Similarly, photos of Pinnacles National Monument where I have not climbed show climbers in climbing shoes, even on the easiest routes.

[SnowAlien]

Agree with Polar. For anything up to 5.7-ish I use approach boots. Fwiw, I've been using 5.10 Guide Exums, a mid-height boot with sticky rubber soles, but with a regular boot tread pattern. Even has an edging platform under the ball of the foot. Very nice for scrambles, both desert and alpine. It's what I often take backpacking, but not very good in the water repellency department, even with a couple of coats of Scotchgard.
-Tom

I absolutely love my 5.10 guide tennies and have climbed Blitzen ridge in them (5.6), but in general I prefer rock climbing shoes if I am on a lead. Traction/grippiness is not an issue with 5.10 soles, but approach shoes just feel more floppy. Another issue I had with them is no suspension, so a couple 15 mile hikes last year caused an injury to metatarsals. This year I am careful on taking them on hikes no longer than 5 miles. I learned to work around those limitations and they are my favorite approach shoe by far.

p.s. But it looks like I'll pick up a new pair of Guide Exums as well Always learn something new from Tom P...