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If there are 58 14ers...

Colorado 13er peak questions, condition requests and other info, including topics related to 13ers.com. 13er Trip Reports, Condition Reports
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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby semitrueskerm » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:19 pm

What if you find an abandoned dog and name him "Lucky" while climbing one the said 14ers, Centennials, and/or BiCentennials? Which list does that belong to?

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby TravelingMatt » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:20 pm

smoove wrote:Huh? From the preface of his Thirteeners book:


I have the book in front of me and quoted it upthread. Nothing about his definition of "centennial thirteeners" requires it to have exactly 100 or any other number of peaks.
So pleas'd at first the towering Alps we try,
Mount o'er the vales, and seem to tread the sky,
Th' increasing prospects tire our wand'ring eyes,
Hills peep o'er hills, and Alps on Alps arise!
-- Alexander Pope

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby TravelingMatt » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm

semitrueskerm wrote:What if you find an abandoned dog and name him "Lucky" while climbing one the said 14ers, Centennials, and/or BiCentennials? Which list does that belong to?


That depends, did both you and the dog gain 3000 feet?
So pleas'd at first the towering Alps we try,
Mount o'er the vales, and seem to tread the sky,
Th' increasing prospects tire our wand'ring eyes,
Hills peep o'er hills, and Alps on Alps arise!
-- Alexander Pope

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby smoove » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:36 pm

TravelingMatt wrote:
smoove wrote:Huh? From the preface of his Thirteeners book:


I have the book in front of me and quoted it upthread. Nothing about his definition of "centennial thirteeners" requires it to have exactly 100 or any other number of peaks.


I'm not saying the list requires exactly 100 peaks. I'm saying that it's clear that the term "centennial" refers to (roughly) the highest 100 peaks. That's why he mentions "100 highest peaks" twice. He could have included only the (46, 45, 42?) 13ers that, added to the 14ers (54, 55, 58, other?), would equal the highest 100. But instead he said, well there are roughly 100 peaks in Colorado above 13,800' and that round number will make for a better book title. Aren't some of those 13ers in the book (thinking of Mt. Spalding, for example) also unranked?

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby TallGrass » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:41 pm

smoove wrote:Huh? From the preface of his Thirteeners book: "...Counting schemes vary, but the fourteeners plus the thirteeners over 13,800 comprise Colorado's 100 highest peaks. We have coined the term centennial thirteeners to refer to thirteeners between 13,800 and 13,999 feet."
IOW, the Centennials (~100) are comprised of about ~53 Centennial Fourteeners and ~47 Centennial Thirteeners. And who really uses 1,640ft (500m) versus 300ft?
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby rijaca » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:00 pm

There are exactly 100 Centennials: the 53 ranked 14ers plus the next highest 47 ranked peaks (in other words down to Dallas Peak) totaling 100 peaks.

There are 202 Bicentennials because there is a tie for 200th highest ranked peak (at 13,580').

The concept (list) of 100 highest (ranked) peaks (or Centennials) has been around since at least 1968. Garratt and Martin authored a guidebook to the Bicentennials (excluding 14ers) that was published in 1989 (long before Gerry's guidebook): http://www.amazon.com/Colorados-High-Thirteeners-Climbing-Hiking/dp/0917895398
"Spent a little time on the mountain
Spent a little time on the hill"

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby jdorje » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:36 pm

Funny thread.

A centennial is a period of 100 years. A centurion is a leader of 60-80 men and whatever extra support people may be involved; usually not exactly 100 people. centum is latin for 100 and of course the metric "cent" means 1/100.

It seems pretty clear Roach intended the Centennials to be more or less the 100 highest peaks, and to have more or less the same number of 13ers as 14ers. Thus the name would be more or less appropriate, and the difficulty of completing the centennials after finishing the fourteeners would be about the same.

But when you get into the details you're screwed. Peaks may move from soft-ranked to hard-ranked (or occasionally the other way around), or may rise or shrink in elevation either due to better surveying (most common), a change in sea level base elevation, or actual changes in geology. Worrying about the details too much is a waste of time. Even Roach's approximation ("peaks over 13800") is imprecise because the 08 sea level model (EGM2008) would bump Obstruction Peak (13799, probably according to EGM84 or EGM96 scales) up over 13800.

LoJ has a centennials list. It has 127 peaks & points on it, which appear to be every LoJ point higher than Dallas Peak that's in Colorado (it includes Huerfano County HP and many other completely unranked spots). There's also a bicentennials list, which includes just 200 peaks of which Dallas is the 100th.
-Jason Dorje Short

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby GeezerClimber » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:46 pm

Recently I was telling my brother who lives in CT and is a retired atttorney about all the rules and differing interpretations, arguments, etc. about what is and what isn't a peak plus what is and what isn't a climb.

His reply: "sounds like a bunch of lawyers ruining everyone's fun."

After reading this thread, I concur.

Dave

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby jdorje » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:51 pm

GeezerClimber wrote:After reading this thread, I concur.


If you don't have fun discussing it, you should probably just not worry about it. Lists of peaks are only helpful inasmuch as they give us arbitrary goals that motivate us to climb new and interesting points.
-Jason Dorje Short

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby dsunwall » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:56 pm

right, a lot of Colorado peak baggers actually enjoy this stuff. If they didn't they certainly would not go into such detail. Fortunately there are no laws involved so no lawyers are needed.

Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby Bean » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:57 pm

jdorje wrote:Lists of peaks are only helpful inasmuch as they give us arbitrary goals that motivate us to climb new and interesting points.

Like Bross?

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Re: If there are 58 14ers...

Postby jdorje » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:06 pm

Bean wrote:
jdorje wrote:Lists of peaks are only helpful inasmuch as they give us arbitrary goals that motivate us to climb new and interesting points.

Like Bross?

You read my mind.
-Jason Dorje Short

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