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James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Colorado 13er questions, conditions, and other info should be posted here. Also includes topics related to 13ers.com. 13er Trip Reports
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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby coloradokevin » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:17 am

mcfadden wrote:Hi everyone,

There is more politics involved in this situation then many of you are aware of and it is a double edged sword. You see I have lived up there for three years and know Paul. I lived up there because I valued the outdoors and the freedom it brings. But during the summer, hundreds of people a day come to the glacier and many of them (not all or most) leave their trash and human waste everywhere. Not to mention the illegal fires made by ripping of branches from 200 year old bristlecone pines and beer bottles everywhere. The mountain is destroyed every year by ATVs making illegal trails above tree line and people trashing the tundra/lake area by not staying on the trail. Like all rules and fees, they are put in place because things get out of control. #-o

On the other side of the coin, Paul is in it to make money. He fails to mention that he desperately wants the Coors family to develop the old ski area on the mountain to make a snowboard terrain park. He also owns 5-6 other lots next to the glacier that he wants to develop into rental cabins. [-X I just have a problem when the Johnson Family shows up at water board meeting with Eclipse Snowpark gear on and then say there impartial!

If you want to hike Lames Peak and Park for free in the summer I would suggest going to Lock Lomond. It actually makes the hike shorter and there are beautiful lakes there. I know that area like the back of my hand so let me know if you have any questions.
:wink:


Thanks for your post.

This is sort of what I was driving at with my other posts... The fact that the almighty dollar is driving this venture cannot be ignored, and is completely transparent to any of us who have ever run a business in the past.

I agree that the area up there was being trashed, and that is a large part of the reason that I rarely went there in recent years. I truly feel sympathy for those of you who live in the area, and deal with that type of mess in your own back yard. Sadly, I doubt that this parking venture will do much to solve the problem. The trash is on FS land, and the FS has proven to be either unwilling or unable to remedy the problem. I've seen the ATV's up there, and I have seen people attempting to convert the snowfield itself into something that very closely resembles a junkyard terrain park for teenage snowboarders!

If it wasn't for the cost of parking, I bet you could talk a number of folks on this site into assisting with a clean-up day on the mountain... I'm always a fan of accomplishing something while enjoying the mountains!

Anyway, thanks for the Loch advice... I'll definitely try that approach in the future!

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby glacierPaul » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:04 am

Hello all,
The almighty dollar, or money in general, is driving everything in this world! Obviously, I have invested money in the parking business, and need to make a profit. It's the same as anyone having a job, and expecting to be paid. Eclipse is a seperate issue from my parking lot. And yes, I am in favor of the existing(1930-1986) ski area being revamped and reopened. And my 6 lots under the glacier in our sub-division, will not be developed for rental cabins, those would go by my house on any of 7 different lots. Besides what I do with MY property is my business, and is totally subject to county process, all of my ideas for my properties are in the intrest of the public and recreation users alike, I have no plans to close off my property and stop tourism. As far as politics go, everyone is pro/con about every issue, the difference is that my views on Eclipse cannot affect decisions made about Eclipse. In fact, we have an even split on our board of pro/con directors, when it comes to Eclipse. As far as parking by Loch Lomond, The seasonal gate opens July 15, for everyones info.
Paul

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby glacierPaul » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:44 am

Hello all,
The parking area is almost totally complete. I have the signs, and am waiting on the pay envelopes. I have 2 porta-potties, a 50 gallon trash and a 50 gallon recycle can, the dog waste bag dispenser, concrete is poured, a fence around the potties, fee pole and all the parking space poles, have put down recycled asphalt (need more too), and have started the erosion control process on the hill behind the parking area.
Had a responce to coloradokevin, the parking and 3/4 mile hike up is all private property, so there is(was) trash/feces pretty much from anywhere people parked all the way into FS lands. Since I have had the potties and trash/recycle, there has been an absolute difference made. I have the trash/recycle cans fill up every 6 days! And the potties are being used, and not by just my customers, as they are open to the public. And I do hike the trail weekly and pick up various stuff, as well as people bringing down stuff and telling me thanks for having the trash can. I even had a family of 5 all bring back about half a grocery bag each, of trash/water bottles, and I gave each of the kids $1 and refunded Dad his parking fee, they were in shock, but I told them this was the first time I have seen a "family" being pro-active together and I wanted to reinforce the lesson they were teaching their kids. I certainly think my venture is having alot to do with helping the situation up here.
I will post when the project is totally complete, for those interested in seeing the completed project!
Thanks, Paul

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby glacierPaul » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:46 am

Forgot to mention we had rain, hail, groppel, and SNOW yesterday and last night. This morning we are getting more hail, and rain. Winter is coming!!
Paul

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby gitsumpottery » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:11 am

I will make sure to park over on the Winter Park side from now on. Pay parking is ridiculous.
Who the heck is Dan Cheeseman?

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Steve Bonowski » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:46 am

As a side note, I don't think anyone should assume that all the trash, etc. is on USFS land. One can see very quickly by reviewing a closeup map of the area that it is a literal checkerboard of FS and private land all mixed together. Any way to get the area in better shape is good in my view. When I first went up to the Glacier in spring, 1986 as a CMC mountaineering school student, it wasn't pristine but wasn't totally trashed out either.

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Alpinista » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:30 pm

While my preference would be for the USFS to purchase the land, at least Paul is providing a service needed by both the local community and hikers/climbers, and I think it's reasonable for him to be compensated for providing that service. Given the issues with parking and waste in the area, a more common response would have been for someone to buy the lot and close it off entirely. I applaud Paul for taking a pro-active approach to solving the problem. He's also been spending a lot of his own time at the lot (granted to make sure the fee gets collected), but he's been very friendly and polite and excited to explain his plans for improving the lot. If the USFS had done this then farmed it out to a concessionaire (like Brainiard Lake) we definitely would be paying more. And again, MUCH better than one or more locals cutting off ALL access to public land and treating it like their private park or holding the public up for tens of millions of dollars.

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Scott P » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:17 pm

And again, MUCH better than one or more locals cutting off ALL access to public land and treating it like their private park or holding the public up for tens of millions of dollars.


Agreed. The parking fee seems reasonable for private land. I would much rather have a small parking fee than have access blocked like so many other property owners in Colorado do.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby George James » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:35 am

Mr. Johnson,
Hey Paul! I hope you and your family are doing well. I parked at your lot a few weekends ago, and it was a pleasure to meet you! It wasn't finished yet when I visited, and I look forward to coming back sometime to see the progress, it sounds like it's gonna look great! Thanks so much for trying to take care of that beautiful area, it seems to me that you're doing a much better job of it than anyone else is.

Most Sincerely, George James :mrgreen:

mcfadden wrote:If you want to hike Lames Peak...

LAMES PEAK!?!? :x Now that's just not cool. I think that James Peak is awesome!
With a name like that, how could it not be!!! :mrgreen: :wink:
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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Chicago Transplant » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:20 pm

glacierPaul wrote:Hello all,
The parking area is almost totally complete. I have the signs, and am waiting on the pay envelopes. I have 2 porta-potties, a 50 gallon trash and a 50 gallon recycle can, the dog waste bag dispenser, concrete is poured, a fence around the potties, fee pole and all the parking space poles, have put down recycled asphalt (need more too), and have started the erosion control process on the hill behind the parking area.


Wow! Great work Paul, it has been a busy summer for you indeed. I was up there in June and got to talk to you for a bit after skiing James. I was encouraged by your proactive attitiude and am glad to see how far you have come in 2 months. You are definitely creating a new standard, and I hope other land owners follow your example. You definitely care about this area and it shows! Thanks! =D>

PS- George James, I agree, James Peak is anything but Lame, all anyone has to do is just climb one of the east facing couloirs to know that this mountain holds some challenging ascent (and descent :wink: ) lines!
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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby cheeseburglar » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:39 pm

Reminds me of the old saying:
There are no lame mountains, but there are lame climbers and they are really tough! - author unknown

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