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Culebra Winter Hike

Need a climbing partner? Trying to form a hiking group for an outing?
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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby Corn » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:15 pm

I would definitely like to second the last post! It was a great day and it was nice to meet a couple of you guys.

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby IkeB » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:53 pm

How did the Sunday group do, everyone summit?

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby geojed » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:29 am

What? You guys didn't make your own trench? POACHERS!!!

Seriously, it was a great day on a really fun peak.

Sam's a first class kind of guy with the drinks and snacks afterwards. Very pleasantly surprised by that gesture. =D>
Last edited by geojed on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby Spivey » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:24 am

Sunday was an amazing day to be going for a Winter accent. I can't speak for the entire crew, but I thought the conditions were ideal for a summit push, when you consider it was early February. I want to thank Anna for organizing the weekend with the ranch, Then I want to personally thank the Saturday crew for such a great trail. That trail allowed us to make it up to the Super Cairn, without even having to put on our snowshoes. And from there, micro spikes did the trick. I even made it back to Colorado springs in time to catch the entire Super Bowl. It was hard to justify the additional winter premium fee, but now that the trip is over, I thought the winter hike was so much extra...so I am not complaining. Thanks

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby I Man » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:48 am

Culebra was a fun peak, made even better by being in winter. It was wonderful to hike with such a great group of people on Saturday.

Overall the experience was very positive, except for one big thing...

We were denied the chance to go for Red Mountain for reasons that were entirely fictional. The Ranch was dishonest, and "stole" our money expecting us to come back and pay again ($150 more) to get Red in the summer.

Some of us are talking with them to try and make this right ](*,) ](*,)
You can touch the void, just don't fall into it.

"I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby Johnson » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:15 am

I Man wrote:Culebra was a fun peak, made even better by being in winter. It was wonderful to hike with such a great group of people on Saturday.

Overall the experience was very positive, except for one big thing...

We were denied the chance to go for Red Mountain for reasons that were entirely fictional. The Ranch was dishonest, and "stole" our money expecting us to come back and pay again ($150 more) to get Red in the summer.

Some of us are talking with them to try and make this right ](*,) ](*,)


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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby wildlobo71 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:22 am

I Man wrote:We were denied the chance to go for Red Mountain for reasons that were entirely fictional. The Ranch was dishonest, and "stole" our money expecting us to come back and pay again ($150 more) to get Red in the summer.

Some of us are talking with them to try and make this right


I am just curious as to how they "stole" your money - they either did or didn't, and "stole" indicates it's a "principle of the matter" sort of idea. If they indeed took money for Red and then denied access to Red, they owe you money back only. A "free" return trip to climb Red A in the summer is not free - it's more gas, more labor to climb, etc.
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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby I Man » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:41 am

wildlobo71 wrote:
I Man wrote:We were denied the chance to go for Red Mountain for reasons that were entirely fictional. The Ranch was dishonest, and "stole" our money expecting us to come back and pay again ($150 more) to get Red in the summer.

Some of us are talking with them to try and make this right


I am just curious as to how they "stole" your money - they either did or didn't, and "stole" indicates it's a "principle of the matter" sort of idea. If they indeed took money for Red and then denied access to Red, they owe you money back only. A "free" return trip to climb Red A in the summer is not free - it's more gas, more labor to climb, etc.


I agree that it is not "free" as I will still need to drive back there and use a day, etc...but right now it stands that I will need to drive there AND pay for Culebra AGAIN and add on Red ($350 total).

We were told Red would be available for the $200 based on a cutoff time (12pm summit of CUlebra)
When we paid in the morning they said their "Local expert" had evaluated snow conditions and said it was not safe to go to Red and that it would not be an option
They then told us that no group had ever started before 6am and that we were lucky to start at 5 (see last year's TR - 4am start)
Next they said no one had ever been allowed to climb Red in the winter before (again, see last year's TR)
There were no visible tracks anywhere on the mountain, so no "snow expert" went in and evaluated the conditions on the connecting ridge - which of course turned out to be entirely reasonable.

Every single person in our team made it to Culebra by the 12pm cutoff and could have safely gotten Red.

I am sorry - but the way it looks to me is they had us there, ready to hike and ready to hand over our $200. Denying us Red meant a shorter day for them and a chance at additional revenue in the future.

Its just dishonest, plain and simple. [-X
You can touch the void, just don't fall into it.

"I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby kansas » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:47 am

Hasn't the standard cost for Culebra always been $200 in winter? So they were giving you a chance at Red for free, correct?

I'm sure their decision had nothing to do with the liability of being a land owner allowing people to climb on their property in winter, it was all about collecting another $150, that's big money to someone who owns a mountain.
Last edited by kansas on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
"In the end, of course, it changed almost nothing. But I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams."
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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby SolarAlex » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:52 am

firing out accusations of dishonesty and outright theft is a good way to have the culebra people shut down access to the peak for everyone. if you have an issue, talk to them directly, and leave the public forums out of it.

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby I Man » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:55 am

SolarAlex wrote:firing out accusations of dishonesty and outright theft is a good way to have the culebra people shut down access to the peak for everyone. if you have an issue, talk to them directly, and leave the public forums out of it.


Fair enough of the wording. Theft is strong. Sam is a very nice guy and we have talked to him and he is going to work with us.

The new owner's simply need time to adjust. They will get the hang of it and I imagine this summer will be a very positive experience for all involved :-D
You can touch the void, just don't fall into it.

"I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.

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Re: Culebra Winter Hike

Postby wildlobo71 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:57 am

I Man wrote:I agree that it is not "free" as I will still need to drive back there and use a day, etc...but right now it stands that I will need to drive there AND pay for Culebra AGAIN and add on Red ($350 total).

We were told Red would be available for the $200 based on a cutoff time (12pm summit of CUlebra)
When we paid in the morning they said their "Local expert" had evaluated snow conditions and said it was not safe to go to Red and that it would not be an option
They then told us that no group had ever started before 6am and that we were lucky to start at 5 (see last year's TR - 4am start)
Next they said no one had ever been allowed to climb Red in the winter before (again, see last year's TR)
There were no visible tracks anywhere on the mountain, so no "snow expert" went in and evaluated the conditions on the connecting ridge - which of course turned out to be entirely reasonable.

Every single person in our team made it to Culebra by the 12pm cutoff and could have safely gotten Red.

I am sorry - but the way it looks to me is they had us there, ready to hike and ready to hand over our $200. Denying us Red meant a shorter day for them and a chance at additional revenue in the future.

Its just dishonest, plain and simple. [-X


So, Both Culebra and Red were going to be made available for the one-time winter fee of $200 at the outset of the communications to Cielo Vista? Darrin is right, we all know this, Red is typically $50 extra and unless you can make other special arrangements, it's usually tacked on to the $100 summer fee for Culebra. So people who only went for Culebra paid $200 and those who may have intended to do Red A were also told it could be included within the same amount?

As for their expert versus your expertise - they own the land, pure and simple. It's up to them and you either live by their rules, or you break them. Breaking them is a sure way to get access denied to all people in the future - they don't make their money off of hikers, they make it off of logging, ranching, and hunting on their land... we provide their pocket change with our hikes.

It sounds like you are out no money - just the opportunity. That's frustrating, but it happens everywhere in society - climbing a mountain on private land is no different than thinking you had access to the entire Phish catalog, with your $20, but then finding out later it didn't include the late-90's live recordings... (trying to speak your language Matt.)
Bill W.
Yes, I have my Scotch.

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