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Lesson on Noobs

Need a climbing partner? Trying to form a hiking group for an outing?
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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby mattpayne11 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:44 pm

I was going to post a meaningful comment but I see Steve already posted about as much as can be covered on this topic. Kudos to Steve. Great thoughts.

Parting thought from me - we all have and can make mistakes... the real value is to learn from them and not repeat them.

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby Jesse M » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:45 pm

Chapter 17 of Freedom of the Hills. (read/reread this chapter)

"Large groups may also need more focus on team building, because it is likely that the members do not all know one another."

example: carry hot tub, keg, small statue, flag to summit :)

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby ChrisRoberts » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:13 pm

DeucesWild wrote:
desertdog wrote:I host a small climbing group in New Mexico. We are selective who can join based on experience, but every once in a while we get someone that what's to "try it" or thinks they can do winter climb because they have run a marathon.


=D> That is so fascinating. How can I become a member of your exclusive and elite society?


I dont know if this comment was supposed to be satirical, but I got a good laugh out of it. Well said Deuces.
Some rise, some fall, some climb to get to terrapin
Read all about my schemes and adventuring at NoCo Chris Latest TR: Ramsay, Sugarloaf and Skull

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby Maudie » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:19 pm

I, too, second Steve's post. I am reminded of my Avy 1 course where the group formed a circle at the trailhead each day and everyone indicated who they were, where they were from, what gear they had for the group, and what gear they had for themselves. From here, there was the beacon check. It seems a very small thing to do and, yet, can be so utterly helpful.

But, I also realize, its very easy to offer opinons as I sit in my 66-degree house and read about someone-else's grueling experience. I count myself among the lucky for not having to endure this type of adventure.

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby mountaingoat-G » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:38 pm

I just read the blog, I don't have anything to add, but holy %^%&*$# check out the boots she used. Nuts !!!

Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby Bean » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:58 pm

sgladbach wrote:To reiterate, there is no need to respond to these comments. They are 100% correct.

I like your style.


OneArmSteve wrote:yet another reason why I prefer to go alone.

One does not need to go it alone to not be forced to suffer incompetence. It was only a few weeks ago that I was with a group of nine and not a single fool to suffer.
gdthomas wrote:Bean, you're an idiot.

http://throughpolarizedeyes.com

Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby Easy Rider » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:20 pm

Obviously I have too much time to kill today, but this is such a classic case of what has kept me awake at night wether the circumstances are casual or professional... especially after the precedent set by the Austrian courts at this time two years ago. The list of litigation set against guiding companies must be a lengthy one, but I would think the law is not as clear in less institutionalized scenarios in the states (hopefully).
There is something special about introducing someone to mountaineering. There is a part of us that wants to teach, and to relive that sense of discovery through others. But frankly, I've never been more afraid for my own welfare than when short roping a group of inexperienced climbers. Crampons ball one by one, pant legs shredded, and down they go full of embarrassed grins with no attempt to self arrest, but as the leader it's your ass! Somehow expendable, your survival secondary to the others. I've never forgotten that feeling when going out with others, and it doesn't help my tendency to go alone. Here's an interesting article from the Italian Alpine Club that will probably only fan the flames: http://www.bormioforumneve.eu/gb_Lenti_Leonardo.pdf

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby mtnview » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:31 pm

To be helpful for the future; as winter scrambling on ridges in the jetstream can be a real hazardous activity; is that someone should set up and maintain a winter hiking preparation page on 14ers.com. Then everyone could direct the less experienced to that page to get them up to speed.

I have seen over the years that winter hiking has become more and more popular.

Some real easy lessons such as 2 or even 3 pair of mitts and gloves are necessary on winter hikes. Inevitably the first pair get damp from just the effort of going uphill.

Or just to ask yourself the question on the type of trip. Could this trip cause me to have to spend a night out and do I have enough gear to stay warm?

With the melting and refreezing that happens on slopes in the spring do I need real crampons to be safe?

Often if it is 32 degrees F at the trailhead it will be 0 F or worse up high. For me 22-32F is my range for the trailhead. What winds can be expected is also a big factor as well.

A section on what boots can handle what temperatures. My Scarpa Charmoz's (which do have a lining) for example I would trust only to 0 degrees F. If I know up high it will be colder then I reconsider my boots or even going.

Sarah made a pretty big boo boo on the boots, gloves and gaiters and toughed it out, hopefully her feet will have no long term damage.

Anyways just some thoughts that may be helpful.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise (of his return), as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
http://www.truedino.com/colorado14ers.htm

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby Kiefer » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:19 pm

Image
"Wisdom comes from making mistakes.
Experience, is the knowledge of knowing what to do when one makes a mistake and wisdom,
stems from the changes we go through while learning from those mistakes."

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby Don Eberl » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:16 am

My only comment on this thread is that I am very glad to see that there are very few criticisms of the subject hiker. On past threads, I have seen people post mistakes only to be ridiculed. I personally enjoy reading about people's mistakes as it can help me to avoid the same mistakes. I believe ths forum should encourage people to write about their experiences without threat of ridicule and condemnation. I recently had an Avy Class where we spent time discussing how Avy experts are always learning and developing new methods of training based on other's mistakes and behaviors. If Avy experts criticized others mistakes, they would never have the information to develop insructional material to teach others.
Some of it's majic, some of it's tragic, but I had a good life all the way.

Jimmy Buffett

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Re: Lesson on Noobs

Postby SuperiorTrailHiker » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:55 am

Takes some discipline to stick with sweet potatoes and kale when everyone else is knocking down a couple pizzas.

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