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Myth of the MSR Reactor

Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing. Gear Classifieds
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Postby CO Native » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:19 am

g wrote:How much does/will it cost? $140 still?


So far that's still the going rate.

ezsuperkev wrote:what is a good stove then for zero degree temperatures ??


The MSR Whisperlite or Simmerlites have always been good strong performers in all weather conditions. Though it takes practice to learn to use them well. Basically getting the priming done right.
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Postby gsliva » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:07 am

http://www.getoutdoors.com/goblog/index ... -Test.html

Jetboil doesn't like wind so I make a wind screen out of duct repair aluminum or heavy duty foil. For just boil and bag food you can't beat the Jetboil. I haven't seen the reactor yet however so I'll reserve judgent until then.
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Postby upndown » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:40 am

ezsuperkev wrote:what is a good stove then for zero degree temperatures ??
The Dragonfly. I've had it for years, it has never missed a beat, is super simple to light, and works in ANY weather. I modified it a bit and now it all(except the fuel bottle) fits inside my Evernew pot. Basically, you cut the legs so they are detachable and take the washers off the burner so it too is detachable.
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I have two cannister stoves (Snowpeak Gigapower and MSR Pocket Rocket). I found they 1) Don't do well in wind, 2) Use a lot of fuel, 3) Suck in cold weather. I've never even come close to running out of fuel with the DragonFly and it does well regardless or wind or temps.
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Postby ADKben » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:17 pm

I realize the hassle posed by keeping a canister next to your body at basically all hours but having done that, ive not had a problem w/ my jetboil; granted the wind thing is an issue but as for it just not working, ive not had that problem ever..and im talking about winter use here.

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Postby aaronwright » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:05 pm

ezsuperkev wrote:what is a good stove then for zero degree temperatures ??


There is nothing better than the MSR XGK. I've used mine on trips where other people had Whisperlites and Canister stoves and the XGK significantly outperformed those stoves.
"How do you distinguish between being off-route and putting up a first ascent ?" — Bruce Bindner

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Postby upndown » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:25 pm

aaronwright wrote:There is nothing better than the MSR XGK. I've used mine on trips where other people had Whisperlites and Canister stoves and the XGK significantly outperformed those stoves.
Agreed. A friend of mine has an XGK - it performs similarly to my Dragonfly with one exception and that is the ability to precisely control the simmer. But with a pot koozie, that isn't a big plus these days.

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Postby Igloo Ed » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:01 pm

upndown wrote:A friend of mine has an XGK - it performs similarly to my Dragonfly with one exception and that is the ability to precisely control the simmer. But with a pot koozie, that isn't a big plus these days.

Agreed on the type of cooking people do these days with the koosies.
It's different for myself though in that I use snow shelters all winter long and it is nice to have a simmer setting so I can take longer to melt the snow for water. The heat running on simmer for a couple hours will warm the interior of the snow shelter enough that the walls get slushy and after that it only takes a lantern or a couple candles to maintain that heat.
It's also nice to have a quiet stove and I do great with my cannister stove and lantern. Snow shelters are warm enough that the cannisters work fine.

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Postby upndown » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:31 pm

Igloo Ed wrote:Agreed on the type of cooking people do these days with the koosies.
It's different for myself though in that I use snow shelters all winter long and it is nice to have a simmer setting so I can take longer to melt the snow for water. The heat running on simmer for a couple hours will warm the interior of the snow shelter enough that the walls get slushy and after that it only takes a lantern or a couple candles to maintain that heat.
It's also nice to have a quiet stove and I do great with my cannister stove and lantern. Snow shelters are warm enough that the cannisters work fine.
I think you mentioned it in a different thread - but I'm lazy. Which cannister stove do you have that you are able to simmer? My PocketRocket is a little better than my Gigapower, but neither or them simmer even remotely as well as the DragonFly. I've used the DragonFly to heat up my tent, but there's that carbon monoxide thing..... :?

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Postby Igloo Ed » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:15 pm

upndown wrote:I think you mentioned it in a different thread - but I'm lazy. Which cannister stove do you have that you are able to simmer? My PocketRocket is a little better than my Gigapower, but neither or them simmer even remotely as well as the DragonFly. I've used the DragonFly to heat up my tent, but there's that carbon monoxide thing..... :?

I have the Primus Mini Duo, a stove/lantern combination. I've had others use the Pocket Rocket and I see they don't simmer quite as well as mine.
I think the Dragon Fly makes noise and it's a coleman fuel type stove right?
The CO thing is understanding why and when the stove produces CO.
The most output of CO comes from when you prime the stove, that fuel burns very unefficiently and can drive the CO in a snow shelter right up to 135 ppm by the time the stove gets going. The next biggest producer of CO is running the stove hot enough that the flame touches the pot. This causes incomplete combustion also and can easily double or more the amount of CO produced from the same stove on simmer.
From the testing I've done, my canister stove was below 5 ppm on simmer and was 15 ppm on a reasonable high setting (not where the flames come up the side of the pot).
I've tested it with other peoples canister stoves as well and found the same results. I don't know what models those were though.
I also tested with my buddies Whisperlite and we had around 15 ppm on simmer and 28 ppm on a reasonable high setting.
This is all with proper venting and that isn't as much as you would think. We had a 1" diameter hole at the top of the snow shelter and the door had a small gap at the bottom. The top of the door was below the floor so the amount of venting was determined by the size of the ceiling vent.
We found the air going through the vent to be traveling at 5 mph.

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Postby Holy Schist » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:34 pm

gsliva wrote:http://www.getoutdoors.com/goblog/index.php?/archives/1323-Jetboil-Versus-MSR-Reactor-Field-Test.html

Jetboil doesn't like wind so I make a wind screen out of duct repair aluminum or heavy duty foil. For just boil and bag food you can't beat the Jetboil. I haven't seen the reactor yet however so I'll reserve judgent until then.


I am not too excited for it, and am not going to sell my JetBoil for it. I t uses IsoButane, which has an REI recommendation to keep it above 25 degrees F, it boils less water per 100 grams of fuel, has shorter burn time per cannister (even with 2g more of fuel, and the fuel is much more expensive. Basically it sounds like if you carry a 1 gram piece of tin foil for wind and carry the fuel next to your body (like you would have to with the MSR) you have everything in the Jetboil for $50 less and less for refills in the future.

Also, as for the wind thing, I have not had a problem yet with the JetBoil. But I do love their snowshoes, I have the Denali, Evo Ascent's,...cool snowshoe.

Just a $.02 thought

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Postby upndown » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:45 pm

Igloo Ed wrote:I have the Primus Mini Duo, a stove/lantern combination. I've had others use the Pocket Rocket and I see they don't simmer quite as well as mine.
I think the Dragon Fly makes noise and it's a coleman fuel type stove right?

When on fast boil, it's VERY loud. Annoyingly so. But on a simmer, it's negligible. Yes - it's a white gas stove. It's by no means an ultralight stove. I shaved off .9 oz by cutting the legs, but that was more for packability than weight.
Igloo Ed wrote:The CO thing is understanding why and when the stove produces CO.
The most output of CO comes from when you prime the stove, that fuel burns very unefficiently and can drive the CO in a snow shelter right up to 135 ppm by the time the stove gets going. The next biggest producer of CO is running the stove hot enough that the flame touches the pot. This causes incomplete combustion also and can easily double or more the amount of CO produced from the same stove on simmer.
From the testing I've done, my canister stove was below 5 ppm on simmer and was 15 ppm on a reasonable high setting (not where the flames come up the side of the pot).
I've tested it with other peoples canister stoves as well and found the same results. I don't know what models those were though.
I also tested with my buddies Whisperlite and we had around 15 ppm on simmer and 28 ppm on a reasonable high setting.
This is all with proper venting and that isn't as much as you would think. We had a 1" diameter hole at the top of the snow shelter and the door had a small gap at the bottom. The top of the door was below the floor so the amount of venting was determined by the size of the ceiling vent.
We found the air going through the vent to be traveling at 5 mph.
I wouldn't be able to count fast enough to know if I were at 15 ppm or 5 ppm...just being cautious based on articles I've read. I guess I would be fine at a simmer in my tent because it has much more ventilation than what you just described. Look for the article titled: "Experienced hiker(not in jeans) dies in tent from CO poisoning." You'll know it was me taking your word for it. 8)

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Postby Igloo Ed » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:04 pm

upndown wrote:When on fast boil, it's VERY loud. Annoyingly so. But on a simmer, it's negligible. Yes - it's a white gas stove. It's by no means an ultralight stove. I shaved off .9 oz by cutting the legs, but that was more for packability than weight.

Snow shelters are quiet enough that just a little flutter of the flame can be heard. Even though the white gas doesn't put off to much CO when used properly, it still has an odor to it.
I wouldn't be able to count fast enough to know if I were at 15 ppm or 5 ppm...just being cautious based on articles I've read. I guess I would be fine at a simmer in my tent because it has much more ventilation than what you just described. Look for the article titled: "Experienced hiker(not in jeans) dies in tent from CO poisoning." You'll know it was me taking your word for it. 8)

I'll watch for the article. ;)
Here's some reading if you want to check it out further: http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_StovesTech.htm#CO
I think your news article will read, Stove flares up on climber and burns his tent down.

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