Forum
Buying gear? Please use these links to help 14ers.com:

More info...

Other ways to help...

Down Jacket Fill Weight

Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing. Gear Classifieds
User avatar
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:28 pm
Location: Castle Rock, CO

Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby COBuckeye » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:59 am

Ok, so this may be a stupid question but, does the total fill weight of down in a jacket affect it's warmth? In other words, suppose you have two jackets, both 800 fill power, both same size, but one uses 2g of down and the other 3g. I assume the 3g jacket is warmer, correct?

FWIW...this came up as I was inquiring about the total weight of down used in the First Ascent Downlight Hoody. I was trying to compare this jacket to the MontBell Mirage. The First Ascent customer service specialist told me that they had never heard of someone asking about fill weight in grams. So I began to wonder if I am way off base or the FA person is...
"...cause I got changed by what I've been shown, more glory than the world has known, keeps me ramblin' on..." - Josh Garrels (Farther Along)

User avatar
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:44 pm

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby Dave B » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:57 am

I would think the mass of down would be highly important.

Imagine a jacket with 10g of 900 fill down spread out through the body. Now imagine the same jacket with 100g of down. Obviously the more down would be warmer.

The same idea holds true for increasing a sleeping bags warmth by over stuffing it. Fill weight describes down quality (higher = more down less feathers) and compressibility.

COBuckeye wrote:The First Ascent customer service specialist told me that they had never heard of someone asking about fill weight in grams.


Interesting, I'm sure they could have suggested a killer Cabernet to compliment lamb osso-bucco though or maybe which sweater vest is trending highest on pinterest.

Sorry... cynicism. Buy a Mont-Bell, their insulation is far and away the best (in my not so ever humble opinion).
"There is no cheating in climbing, only lying." - Semi-Rad

User avatar
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Louisville, CO

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby GregMiller » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:01 am

As I understand it, fill power is a measure of how much the down wants to 'fluff out', and fill weight is how much down you have. Trapped air is what provides insulation, and a greater thickness of trapped air provides more insulation. Assuming they constructed the jackets to let the down fluff out properly, the one with 3g should be thicker (and thus warmer) than the one with 2g (assuming the difference isn't in a hood or longer cut or something like that). If the two jackets are the same size (thickness) and cut, but have a difference in fill weight, I don't know that you'd get any added warmth.

As far as people knowing fill weight, I think I only see it mentioned about half the time, but AFAIK it's a good number to compare jackets with.
Still Here
been scared and battered. My hopes the wind done scattered. Snow has friz me, Sun has baked me,
Looks like between 'em they done Tried to make me
Stop laughin', stop lovin', stop livin'-- But I don't care! I'm still here!
Langston Hughes

Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby mtnjim » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:23 am

Since 3g is about .1 oz I'm thinking neither jacket would be very warm. :)

But between those two, I think the Montbell would be warmer because of it's boxed/baffled construction. I was in the Montbell store not long ago, the day before the flood actually, and tried on the Mirage out of curiosity. It weighs about the same as my Golite Bitteroot but puffs up a lot more. I'm enough of a gear nut to wish I needed one but no way I could justify it.

Very light material in the Montbell, though, so that needs to be kept in mind. I haven't seen the First Ascent but looks to be sewn through construction.

the Montbell was on sale for something like $220(?) when I was there Sept. 12. Worth giving them a call.

JimS

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby lordhelmut » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:36 am

The First Ascent customer service specialist told me that they had never heard of someone asking about fill weight in grams.


On the whole, this is not that surprising. Most FA "specialists" are the same people folding the EB designer cloths in the front of the store (its not their fault as its a mall retail store first - mountaineering company 2nd).

The quality of construction is obvious between these 2 brands. FA has flashy and numerous colors, but that doesn't mean much when all the down feathers have leaked out. It used to be a great xmas gift for my dad, who would use it for nothing more than strolls through the woods in the East Coast - but they rarely even have the sales they used to, so I go with GoLite - which appears to have higher quality down than FA. Montbell seems to specialize in down and I personally, have never had a problem with leaking feathers.

I'd guess the Montbell Mirage would be significantly warmer than the FA downlight hoody - when compared side by side. I've heard mixed reactions to 900 or even 1000 fill power (someone said anything over 800 fill is just a marketing scam) - but the weight to warmth ratio seems to be unmatched with Montbell.

Edit - I'd be interested to see which jacket of the Montbell family, would be the overall warmest - as you have the Frost Line Parka(6.7oz of fill weight, 24.3 oz weight of jacket - 800-fill), - Mirage (5.3oz fill weight, 12.8 weight of jacket, 900-fill), then the Permafrost (9.0oz fill weight, 23.6 oz of jacket 800-fill). Mirage sounds like a great fall/winter summit lounging jacket for its packability. Permafrost sounds like a solid anti-freeze your ass off at camp jacket.
Last edited by lordhelmut on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:44 pm

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby Dave B » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:58 am

lordhelmut wrote:Edit - I'd be interested to see which jacket of the Montbell family, would be the overall warmest - as you have the Frost Line Parka(6.7oz of fill weight, 24.3 oz weight of jacket - 800-fill), - Mirage (5.3oz fill weight, 12.8 weight of jacket, 900-fill), then the Permafrost (9.0oz fill weight, 23.6 oz of jacket 800-fill). Mirage sounds like a great fall/winter summit lounging jacket for its packability. Permafrost sounds like a solid anti-freeze your ass off at camp jacket.


I would guess the permafrost for sure. Not only because of higher fill weight but because of box construction and windstopper laminate.

I'd be scared to take the mirage almost anywhere since 7d feels about as durable as saran-wrap.
"There is no cheating in climbing, only lying." - Semi-Rad

User avatar
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:28 pm
Location: Castle Rock, CO

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby COBuckeye » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:00 am

Thanks guys! I suspected that more grams = more warmth, and that the FA "specialist" may not actually be a specialist, but I figured I would ask the collective to dissuade my self-doubt...
"...cause I got changed by what I've been shown, more glory than the world has known, keeps me ramblin' on..." - Josh Garrels (Farther Along)

User avatar
Posts: 703
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Denver

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby rickinco123 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:26 pm

One more for Montbell. My UL down hoody gets used 4 seasons. At 8oz its hard to justify leaving it behind.

User avatar
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:27 pm
Location: Denver/Golden

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby SurfNTurf » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:36 pm

COBuckeye wrote:So I began to wonder if I am way off base or the FA person is...


Eddie Bauer does provide their associates with some pretty detailed training on First Ascent, but of course it's up to the individual to retain it. There are some really knowledgeable people and others that can't tell the difference between a mitten and a glove. C'est la vie. The only prerequisite for that First Ascent Expert pin is a quota of FA products sold; everyone gets one if they've been there long enough. Take that with a grain of salt.
Many Miles to Go (Blog)

“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper

User avatar
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:28 pm
Location: Castle Rock, CO

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby COBuckeye » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:16 pm

SNT,
Do you happen to know the fill weight of of the Downlight Hoody?
"...cause I got changed by what I've been shown, more glory than the world has known, keeps me ramblin' on..." - Josh Garrels (Farther Along)

User avatar
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:27 pm
Location: Denver/Golden

Re: Down Jacket Fill Weight

Postby SurfNTurf » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:22 pm

COBuckeye wrote:SNT,
Do you happen to know the fill weight of of the Downlight Hoody?


Backpacking Light to the rescue.
Many Miles to Go (Blog)

“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chico_P and 15 guests