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The cure for Frozen water?

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby goingup » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:54 pm

Dex wrote:
Water 002.JPG

Water 001.JPG


http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageName=Products&PageIndex=758

I constructed a sleeve for a Camelbak 100oz bladder out of reflectix. You can find it in Home Depot. It is bulky but I think most can find room in their pack for it. It doesn't weigh much - a few ounces 3? 4?

Velcro was used to close the top.

I tested it in a 90+ degree temps hike - loaded it up with ice, water and a little Gatorade - after 12+ hours the remaining water was still cold.

So ... will it work under winter conditions? I might give it a try.

The key with Camelbak in winter is to insulate the tube and blow the water back into the bladder after drinking. I've found the area near the bite valve to be the most susceptible to freezing.


I like when people engineer their own stuff (I may give this a try although I have an osprey bag).

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby MountainHiker » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:02 pm

I've stayed with nalgenes. They ride upside down in my pack's water bottle pockets with a hand warmer under each one. I still get some ice, but I'm able to open the lids and drink what is still mostly water. With extra cold I've kept a bottle inside the pack with a body warmer.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby dsunwall » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:52 pm

globreal wrote:The cure for Frozen water?

Hike with ACERguy007. He packs his MSR Reactor stove in winter!

On our climb to Bull Hill, he just boiled some water to thaw out Otina's tube. Thanks Ryan!


thats the ticket, although I have a Jetboil. Also probably the best thing you can bring for survival if benighted. Don't tell me they don't work when it's zero degrees because they do.

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby RyGuy » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:58 pm

dsunwall wrote:
globreal wrote:The cure for Frozen water?

Hike with ACERguy007. He packs his MSR Reactor stove in winter!

On our climb to Bull Hill, he just boiled some water to thaw out Otina's tube. Thanks Ryan!


thats the ticket, although I have a Jetboil. Also probably the best thing you can bring for survival if benighted. Don't tell me they don't work when it's zero degrees because they do.

Haha. You're welcome Britt. :-)

Addressing the OP, I will not use Camelbaks or similar drinking devices because as others have pointed out already, they are too prone to freezing. The tube, even the insulated ones will freeze. Took me two climbs, both in February to learn my lesson. One left me without water for a few hours because the entire tube froze solid, and the other left me detaching my house and leaving it coiled against my bare chest under all my layers to keep it from freezing. I'd then hook it back up when I needed a drink. Wasn't practical, got my base layers wet, and the best part was when some residual water froze in the mouthpiece, I tried the same approach as Prick and just bit it. Worked well, except I then put several small holes in the mouthpiece/end of the tube. Now the hose was more of a icicle dispenser, and made drinking even more of an issue. All in all, not worth the hassle, and the risk in my opinion.

So now I use the following approach, and it's been bombproof:
I fill 3-4 Nalgenes with boiling water at the TH or at home in the morning before I leave. I leave one on the outside of my pack for initial water supply. Even in super cold temps, it stays liquid for a couple hours due to the heat. I then cover the other Nalgenes with my spare pair of Smartwool heavy mountaineering socks. The socks do double duty, which saves weight. I've found I can keep the Nalgenes warm for 5-6 hours on a very cold day. As Britt noted, I also carry my 1.5L MSR reactor stove with me year round. So if needed I will just get the stove out at the summit, and re-heat any of my water as needed, or sometimes if I've been drinking a ton, I will just melt a bunch of snow to refill my Nalgenes. I also like the stove from a safety point of view since it also gives me the ability to stay warm and have water if I somehow end up spending a night outside in winter.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

-Ryan
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby jrs1965 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:26 pm

ACERyGuy007 wrote:So now I use the following approach, and it's been bombproof:
I fill 3-4 Nalgenes with boiling water at the TH or at home in the morning before I leave. I leave one on the outside of my pack for initial water supply. Even in super cold temps, it stays liquid for a couple hours due to the heat. I then cover the other Nalgenes with my spare pair of Smartwool heavy mountaineering socks. The socks do double duty, which saves weight. I've found I can keep the Nalgenes warm for 5-6 hours on a very cold day. As Britt noted, I also carry my 1.5L MSR reactor stove with me year round. So if needed I will just get the stove out at the summit, and re-heat any of my water as needed, or sometimes if I've been drinking a ton, I will just melt a bunch of snow to refill my Nalgenes. I also like the stove from a safety point of view since it also gives me the ability to stay warm and have water if I somehow end up spending a night outside in winter.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

-Ryan


Nalgene bottles filled with boiling water tucked inside my sleeping bag got me through many nights of cold weather training while in the Army...

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby RyGuy » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:30 pm

jrs1965 wrote:
ACERyGuy007 wrote:So now I use the following approach, and it's been bombproof:
I fill 3-4 Nalgenes with boiling water at the TH or at home in the morning before I leave. I leave one on the outside of my pack for initial water supply. Even in super cold temps, it stays liquid for a couple hours due to the heat. I then cover the other Nalgenes with my spare pair of Smartwool heavy mountaineering socks. The socks do double duty, which saves weight. I've found I can keep the Nalgenes warm for 5-6 hours on a very cold day. As Britt noted, I also carry my 1.5L MSR reactor stove with me year round. So if needed I will just get the stove out at the summit, and re-heat any of my water as needed, or sometimes if I've been drinking a ton, I will just melt a bunch of snow to refill my Nalgenes. I also like the stove from a safety point of view since it also gives me the ability to stay warm and have water if I somehow end up spending a night outside in winter.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

-Ryan


Nalgene bottles filled with boiling water tucked inside my sleeping bag got me through many nights of cold weather training while in the Army...
Yup. They work great for that too. I have four 1.5L Nalgenes I have for friends who don't deal well with cold when we do cold weather camping. :-)
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Mountain Ninja » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:54 pm

So far, the REI vacuum bottles have worked awesome for me on cold trips: http://www.rei.com/product/839813/rei-classic-vacuum-bottle-34-fl-oz
As several have said, fill 'em up with hot water the night before or morning of, and they'll still be warm by the time you arrive back at your car after a grueling 13-hour winter mountain hike.

I also put a Nalgene with hot water upside down in an insulator and clip it to the front of my pack for easy access, and store the 2 vacuum bottles in my pack.

Good ideas here, guys!
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby colokeith » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:53 am

I use this waterbottle parka with a 1L nalgine. It attaches to the waist strap on my pack. Easy access to fluids without removing my pack, and it hasn't frozen on me yet. The water does get pretty darn cold in there.

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby highpilgrim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:21 am

I don't get to do as much cold weather climbing as I'd like, but I use a metal one-liter thermos bottle and put hot stuff in it like tea and it never freezes and keeps warm stuff going in. If you prime the thermos by preheating it before a final filling, it stays warm most of the day if it's not out hanging in the breeze.

It's not like I need much liquid in the winter so the liter has worked just fine. Granted, it is a little heavier but not ridiculously so.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby ajkagy » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:27 am

highpilgrim wrote:I don't get to do as much cold weather climbing as I'd like, but I use a metal one-liter thermos bottle and put hot stuff in it like tea and it never freezes and keeps warm stuff going in. If you prime the thermos by preheating it before a final filling, it stays warm most of the day if it's not out hanging in the breeze.

It's not like I need much liquid in the winter so the liter has worked just fine. Granted, it is a little heavier but not ridiculously so.


+1 there is nothing better than hot tea from a thermos when out in the snow. If out for a longer period or you need more liquid bring a small lightweight stove to melt snow. There is something about hot liquids that boosts moral when the weather gets tough.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby dannyg23 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:56 am

colokeith wrote:I use this waterbottle parka with a 1L nalgine. It attaches to the waist strap on my pack. Easy access to fluids without removing my pack, and it hasn't frozen on me yet.


That's pretty cool right there. My biggest beef with the Nalgene approach has been access which is admittedly more of an issue with my pack, but I like this idea.

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby smoove » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:05 am

dannyg23 wrote:
colokeith wrote:I use this waterbottle parka with a 1L nalgine. It attaches to the waist strap on my pack. Easy access to fluids without removing my pack, and it hasn't frozen on me yet.


That's pretty cool right there. My biggest beef with the Nalgene approach has been access which is admittedly more of an issue with my pack, but I like this idea.


I've found that if you clip one of those to your pack/waist belt, whatever, with a biner, it's easier to just unclip and clip the whole thing rather than awkwardly fumbling with the zipper/pulling the bottle out, putting in back in, while it's attached to your pack.

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