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The cure for Frozen water?

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The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Dex » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:38 pm

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http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageName=Products&PageIndex=758

I constructed a sleeve for a Camelbak 100oz bladder out of reflectix. You can find it in Home Depot. It is bulky but I think most can find room in their pack for it. It doesn't weigh much - a few ounces 3? 4?

Velcro was used to close the top.

I tested it in a 90+ degree temps hike - loaded it up with ice, water and a little Gatorade - after 12+ hours the remaining water was still cold.

So ... will it work under winter conditions? I might give it a try.

The key with Camelbak in winter is to insulate the tube and blow the water back into the bladder after drinking. I've found the area near the bite valve to be the most susceptible to freezing.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Somewhat of a Prick » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:45 pm

There are winter specific Camelbaks that come with an insulated tube and the tube zips up inside of the sleeve to shield it. Probably easier to get one than go through all this effort.

My model is the Camelbak Tycoon
Last edited by Somewhat of a Prick on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby smoove » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:46 pm

Dex wrote:
Water 002.JPG

Water 001.JPG


http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageName=Products&PageIndex=758

I constructed a sleeve for a Camelbak 100oz bladder out of reflectix. You can find it in Home Depot. It is bulky but I think most can find room in their pack for it. It doesn't weigh much - a few ounces 3? 4?

Velcro was used to close the top.

I tested it in a 90+ degree temps hike - loaded it up with ice, water and a little Gatorade - after 12+ hours the remaining water was still cold.

So ... will it work under winter conditions? I might give it a try.

The key with Camelbak in winter is to insulate the tube and blow the water back into the bladder after drinking. I've found the area near the bite valve to be the most susceptible to freezing.



Yeah, the problem is the tube, not the bladder. If it gets cold enough the water is going to freeze somewhere along the tube--no matter how diligent you are blowing the water back in. The tube insulators don't seem to be very effective, either.

I'm curious to see how Prick's Cameback would work under super cold conditions. But I use a larger pack than that on winter hikes.

Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Somewhat of a Prick » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:49 pm

Dex wrote:I'm curious to see how Prick's Cameback would work under super cold conditions. But I use a larger pack than that on winter hikes.


I've had it out in some really windy/cold as hell days up on 14ers and it's never frozen. The worst that happened was this last Saturday there was a small ice-cube that formed in the mouthpiece, but I just bit it out and the water flowed again.

Here were the conditions on Saturday, from the Democrat saddle, up Democrat, and over to Cameron...all day long we were shelled with bitter cold and hurricane winds...I wish I knew the windchill.



Yes the Tycoon is smaller, but I fit my things in it. Camelbak offers larger size packs with the same concept, I'm not sure of the model off hand



*edit*

http://www.amazon.com/Camelbak-Products-Hydration-Packs-100-Ounce/dp/B00598GTZ8/ref=sr_1_7?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1381348250&sr=1-7&keywords=camelbak+winter+pack 1800 CI

My Tycoon is 1125.

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby smoove » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:00 pm

Somewhat of a Prick wrote:
Dex wrote:I'm curious to see how Prick's Cameback would work under super cold conditions. But I use a larger pack than that on winter hikes.


I've had it out in some really windy/cold as hell days up on 14ers and it's never frozen. The worst that happened was this last Saturday there was a small ice-cube that formed in the mouthpiece, but I just bit it out and the water flowed again.

Here were the conditions on Saturday, from the Democrat saddle, up Democrat, and over to Cameron...all day long we were shelled with bitter cold and hurricane winds...I wish I knew the windchill.



Yes the Tycoon is smaller, but I fit my things in it. Camelbak offers larger size packs with the same concept, I'm not sure of the model off hand



*edit*

http://www.amazon.com/Camelbak-Products-Hydration-Packs-100-Ounce/dp/B00598GTZ8/ref=sr_1_7?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1381348250&sr=1-7&keywords=camelbak+winter+pack 1800 CI

My Tycoon is 1125.


Looks like the Pit Boss is the larger size--but still only 26.5 L. A little too small for my needs in winter. But a great concept. I'd still take an insulated bottle just to be safe. Don't want to go without drinking for too long while trying to melt the ice in one of those tubes.

http://shop.camelbak.com/d/1020

Edit: oops, didn't see you had edited your post.

Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Somewhat of a Prick » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:04 pm

Yeah I have a small bottle in my pack just in case I need to dump the reservoir into it, should it happen to freeze. The tube has never given me any issue, but like I said only one time did anything ever give me an issue and it was just a little chunk of ice in the bite valve that just fell out when I bit it. Could it still freeze? Probably, given ultra-cold/windy conditions...but I've had it in some rough weather and its been smooth sailing so far. Here's to hoping my luck continues! \:D/

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Dave B » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:08 pm

Somewhat of a Prick wrote:I've had it out in some really windy/cold as hell days up on 14ers and it's never frozen. The worst that happened was this last Saturday there was a small ice-cube that formed in the mouthpiece, but I just bit it out and the water flowed again.

Here were the conditions on Saturday, from the Democrat saddle, up Democrat, and over to Cameron...all day long we were shelled with bitter cold and hurricane winds...I wish I knew the windchill.


Wind chill won't cause the tube to freeze any faster unless the outside is (continuously) wet (i.e. latent heat loss from evaporation). Although, wind may cause what little body heat is radiated to the tube by air contact to be convected away (but is probably a negligible amount anyways).

I'd imagine the air temp that day on Democrat was in the 20's probably (based on past forecasts). I've never had any luck with bladder hoses (insulated or not) at any temperature below 25 degrees so I don't even bother.

Just get an OR Nalgene insulator, put it on your hip belt and refill that bottle from an insulated bottle/bladder held in your pack.
Last edited by Dave B on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby kansas » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:10 pm

After a couple winters of messing with camelback options I decided they are more trouble than they're worth in winter. The last thing I need is more s**t to carry just to keep the water bladder from freezing. For me, nothing beats a Nalgene stuffed into my pack or if it's really cold I will carry it in the water bottle pocket of my down coat. I rarely drink more than half a liter on winter climbs, so the easy access of the camelback isn't really a benefit for me. For the most part I prefer Gatorade or Nalgene bottles anyway, even in the summer.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Somewhat of a Prick » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:14 pm

Dave B wrote:
Somewhat of a Prick wrote:I've had it out in some really windy/cold as hell days up on 14ers and it's never frozen. The worst that happened was this last Saturday there was a small ice-cube that formed in the mouthpiece, but I just bit it out and the water flowed again.

Here were the conditions on Saturday, from the Democrat saddle, up Democrat, and over to Cameron...all day long we were shelled with bitter cold and hurricane winds...I wish I knew the windchill.


Wind chill won't cause the tube to freeze any faster unless the outside is wet (i.e. latent heat loss from evaporation).

I'd imagine the air temp that day on Democrat was in the 20's probably (based on past forecasts). I've never had any luck with bladder hoses (insulated or not) at any temperature below 25 degrees so I don't even bother.

Just get an OR Nalgene insulator, put it on your hip belt and refill that bottle from an insulated bottle/bladder held in your pack.



One last anecdote, last November I had it on Mt. Massive and the car read 2 degrees at the trailhead. It made it summit and back without freezing.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Jeff Valliere » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:27 pm

Personally, I have found a Camelback setup to be too unreliable and too high maintenance for Winter use. Additionally, with the possibility of leakage inside the pack, I found the risk of wet, essential clothing to not be worth it as well.

When it is moderately cold (~20's), a Nalgene in an insulated case works well, if I heat the water ahead of time.

When it is really cold (teens or less), I use a Nissan vacuum insulated Thermos

http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_400918?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword}&kwid=productads-sku^400918-adtype^PLA-adid^12625416164

I fill it with boiling water the night before a climb and it is still too hot to drink the following day. To temper the heat, I pack the cap with snow and top off with hot water (or flavored drink), which greatly adds to your drinkable water.

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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Dave B » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:29 pm

Somewhat of a Prick wrote:
One last anecdote, last November I had it on Mt. Massive and the car read 2 degrees at the trailhead. It made it summit and back without freezing.


Yeah, sorry, I don't doubt that your backpack insulates well. I've just had an entire tube freeze on a long day out while zipped closed in the shoulder strap, not having water for 6 hours on a cold Colorado blue bird day sucked. I'm, personally, just not willing to risk it again.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Somewhat of a Prick » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:35 pm

Dave B wrote:I've just had an entire tube freeze on a long day out while zipped closed in the shoulder strap, not having water for 6 hours on a cold Colorado blue bird day sucked. I'm, personally, just not willing to risk it again.


Ouch! :oops:

I hope I don't have to experience that nightmare [-(

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