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The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing. Gear Classifieds
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Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby SeracZack » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:15 pm

lodgling wrote:my (tele) bindings put signifcantly more stress on the binding to ski interface than any alpine setup.


I disagree. A telemark turn applies less force to a ski than the equivalent apline turn. Look at the big heavy bindings on racing skis, and the fact that they don't race with a telemark turn. Much higher forces at work with an alpine turn.

I only think you need inserts for increased shear capacity if you are a big guy, and routinely ski at super high speeds downhill. For most cases, the only good reason for inserts is the binding interchangability (if you want that), IMHO.
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
-Helen Keller

Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby lodgling » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:29 pm

OK, you have your opinion. I'm not going to derail this thread arguing about it. My message to Dave B was "go for it" on the insert front. I don't think we're are in disagreement there.

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Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby COBuckeye » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:02 pm

SZ,
Regarding the switch from tour to ski - yes, you need to take your boot out of the Marker Tour to switch modes, same as Duke/Baron.

Regarding the durability of the Tour - don't know yet, I bought them a few months ago. I would hope that if you are an average sized guy (150lbs-190lbs) and are not hucking 20ft cliffs that they should be fine. Then again, if you are a big guy who likes to jump off stuff, I bet a 10din binding is not for you anyway.

Regarding the forces of a tele turn - I am guessing there is a difference between the "g" force experienced by the alpine skier vs. the tele skier, but this difference may not translate to pure binding screw pull out force. At least BD seems to think the pull out forces are higher for tele bindings http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/uploads/black-diamond/files/F12_BD_MountingSpecs.pdf
"...cause I got changed by what I've been shown, more glory than the world has known, keeps me ramblin' on..." - Josh Garrels (Farther Along)

Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby Bean » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:03 pm

Inserts are more resistant to pull-out than screws, and the free body diagram in my head is telling me that tele bindings can apply substantially higher pullout forces than alpine (to the rear two screws on the "toepiece").
gdthomas wrote:Bean, you're an idiot.

http://throughpolarizedeyes.com

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Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby SeracZack » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:13 pm

I could see the pullout force being higher on the toe piece back screws. My initial thoughts were that during a tele turn your weight is approximately 50/50 on each ski during the turn. To get on edge with your alpine downhill ski, your weight would be closer to 90/10 and that force would translate into a shear force and not a pullout force. Interesting, keeps me busy while I "work".
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
-Helen Keller

Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby Bean » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:38 pm

SeracZack wrote:I could see the pullout force being higher on the toe piece back screws. My initial thoughts were that during a tele turn your weight is approximately 50/50 on each ski during the turn. To get on edge with your alpine downhill ski, your weight would be closer to 90/10 and that force would translate into a shear force and not a pullout force. Interesting, keeps me busy while I "work".


And if you're on a tele binding, when you beater (not if) the forces get pretty high.
gdthomas wrote:Bean, you're an idiot.

http://throughpolarizedeyes.com

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Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby davebks » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Straight from the horse's mouth as they say.....

Hi David,
I was actually in a Salomon rental boot if you can believe that. I was skiing for Salomon back then and they didn't have an A/T on the market, but they did have this great rental boot with a ski/ walk mode and a vibram type sole. It actually worked really well. After that I switched to Garmont for four years and skied the Radium a ton. Now i'm on Scarpa and loving the Maestrale RS and working on a new high performance freeride boot with them.
Best,
Chris

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Re: The Ordinary Skier, boots?

Postby Rock-a-Fella » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Lots of great advice posted here!

Not wanting to give you "Paralysis by Analysis" there are so many factors aka "it all depends".

Baseline I am 6'2" and 190lbs and wear a 15lbs + pack when I ski.

Boot: Garmont Radium Binding: Marker Baron Ski: Volkl Mantra Ski. That is my "I'm not sure were I am going today but I want to rip whatever terrain set up"

I can ski this in and out of bounds. (Radium is too soft to effectively race gates in) I have a Marker Tour F12 on the Volkl Sumo. The tour series is not a park or cliff
jumper of gate racer's binding. if you want the durability it will cost you the weight of the Duke or Baron.

Be careful not to MIX too much gear from different terrains: Radium Boot + Tour 12 binding + Volkl Sumo skis = not enough boot and binding to turn that ski effectively on groomers. Conversely is you ski an alpine boot with a marker duke on a softer BC ski setup you may find yourself "Oversteering" your setup.

The Marker binding series will allow you to adjust the toe ramp angle to your alpine boots. (do your homework if you are going to adjust yourself) This may answer your "one quiver" objective. The steeper the terrain, the more bulletproof, Death cookies and rooster heads there are I suspect the more you will want alpine boots.

Whatever binding you select remember that you are NOT supposed to be Maxing out out Din setting!! (ie. If you ski an 8 release then a 10 din binding is a poor choice)

As previously suggested, put an intuition liner and booster strap on the Radium and you can dial it closer to an alpine boot. (narrow toe box BTW)

Atomic has a new AT binding that looks similar to the Marker. I can't speak to Solomon as they screwed me years ago and I vowed never to by there products

Summary: If you are looking for an AT Boot to ski inbounds in then the Radium with the set up mentioned may be for you.
If you are looking for an Alpine Boot to ski the BC in take a look at the TECNICA FREERIDE SERIES (there are 2 with Dynafit if you want the option)
My alpine boot is a Tecnica Icon ALU. This boot is torture for any skinning or hiking of any length as this is an true old school alpine boot.

I hope that download didn't hurt your head.
Safe Travels to you!

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