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What happened to Missy?

Dogs, dogs and even some cats
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Let's try to keep the topics related to mountaineering, please.
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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby NMLobo_DFW » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:19 am

Long time reader, first time poster. I wanted to pass along kudos and thanks from myself, Buddy & Bruno (my two Chocolate boys who can be seen in my avatar), for the efforts undertaken by everyone: those who found Missy and got the word out; 14ers.com members, and others who rescued her; and all of those that have since provided care for her. Incredible!!

One thing I've learned from reading here is that this community can certainly band together for a common good, and this was a very, very good thing you have done!

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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby jllaw80 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:27 am

I will also donate to Missy's vet bills IF she is not returned to her original owner! Keep us advised.

Jerri

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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby darryle » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:29 am

JB99 wrote:
kimism72 wrote:I'm all for it but can someone please explain to me why the change in name? No matter what her plight, she is Missy and always will be, IMO. If this can be rationally explained I will stand/sit corrected...


I was wondering this too. It almost seems like people are refusing to use her name out of spite for the previous owner. Missy is already confused enough I'm sure, changing her name will only add to this.


Only we humans care what we call our pets. As the owner of 2 rescue dogs that were renamed, they did not care or "suffer" confusion. Good luck Lucky and I wish you a speed recovery physically and "legally"!

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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby RosieTheSummiter » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:30 am

A rescue group for dogs - I think it's a great idea.

May I also propose one thing that will probably make me unpopular with half the people in this group but needs to be considered if a group like this forms? I'd like to consider a petition to keep all dogs off of class 3 summits and above. Before you launch talus in my direction, let me just say that I mention this for a couple of reasons:
1. It's a way to be proactive in keeping dogs out of some of the more precarious situations in the first place. Missy's/Lucky's environment was obviously beyond her abilities. By limiting the difficulty of what a dog ascends, the dog might have a better chance of walking out/down on its own if class 2 and below if the dog were to get lost (although I personally would never take dogs on even some of the class 2 stuff I've done.)
2. It's a way to perhaps keep our future "Friends of Lucky" team from having to also put themselves in the more highly precarious situations/terrain. Awareness of a team like this might make inept owners overly confident in taking dogs up the more iffy stuff where they have no business being, and that could endanger people. It's always the recsuer's own call, but it could invite some bad situations.

Yes, I get it - lots of dogs can get up some crazy summits with help from their owners. Also, lots cannot because it was a bad idea to begin with and it results in bad situations. So where is the happy medium going forward?
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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby letourneau41 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:33 am

RosieTheSummiter wrote:A rescue group for dogs - I think it's a great idea.

May I also propose one thing that will probably make me unpopular with half the people in this group but needs to be considered if a group like this forms? I'd like to consider a petition to keep all dogs off of class 3 summits and above. Before you launch talus in my direction, let me just say that I mention this for a couple of reasons:
1. It's a way to be proactive in keeping dogs out of some of the more precarious situations in the first place. Missy's/Lucky's environment was obviously beyond her abilities. By limiting the difficulty of what a dog ascends, the dog might have a better chance of walking out/down on its own if class 2 and below if the dog were to get lost (although I personally would never take dogs on even some of the class 2 stuff I've done.)
2. It's a way to perhaps keep our future "Friends of Lucky" team from having to also put themselves in the more highly precarious situations/terrain. Awareness of a team like this might make inept owners overly confident in taking dogs up the more iffy stuff where they have no business being, and that could endanger people. It's always the recsuer's own call, but it could invite some bad situations.

Yes, I get it - lots of dogs can get up some crazy summits with help from their owners. Also, lots cannot because it was a bad idea to begin with and it results in bad situations. So where is the happy medium going forward?



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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby Hungry Jack » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:34 am

I currently do not have a dog, but would second the notion that keeping pets off class 3 and above is very good idea, and a "policy" that this web site might publicly advocate. I have done the Sawtooth and Quandary's west ridge multiple times, and I cannot imagine bringing a dog up there.

Ultimately, I imagine the editorial content and any decisions regarding it belong to Bill, but he seems like the type of person who would listen pretty closely to this community.
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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby ChrisRoberts » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:41 am

Hungry Jack wrote:Ultimately, I imagine the editorial content and any decisions regarding it belong to Bill, but he seems like the type of person who would listen pretty closely to this community.


It wont happen, and if it did I doubt that many people would heed the warning. People who think their dog can handle class 3+ are going to try regardless of what the detractors say. In the end, people who know their and their dog's abilities arent going to get in over their head, its other people who will prompt search parties.

Its the whole "dont feed wildlife" sign thing. Yeah some people will listen to it, but its not going to stop a lot of people.
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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby JB99 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:46 am

darryle wrote:
JB99 wrote:
kimism72 wrote:I'm all for it but can someone please explain to me why the change in name? No matter what her plight, she is Missy and always will be, IMO. If this can be rationally explained I will stand/sit corrected...


I was wondering this too. It almost seems like people are refusing to use her name out of spite for the previous owner. Missy is already confused enough I'm sure, changing her name will only add to this.


Only we humans care what we call our pets. As the owner of 2 rescue dogs that were renamed, they did not care or "suffer" confusion.


Good to know, I just figured a name change would be confusing for a dog - I stand corrected. I'll leave the motivation behind the name change to those that made it and simply add my best wishes for Lucky Missy and all involved.
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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby Hungry Jack » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:56 am

ChrisRoberts wrote:
Hungry Jack wrote:Ultimately, I imagine the editorial content and any decisions regarding it belong to Bill, but he seems like the type of person who would listen pretty closely to this community.


It wont happen, and if it did I doubt that many people would heed the warning. People who think their dog can handle class 3+ are going to try regardless of what the detractors say. In the end, people who know their and their dog's abilities arent going to get in over their head, its other people who will prompt search parties.

Its the whole "dont feed wildlife" sign thing. Yeah some people will listen to it, but its not going to stop a lot of people.


Of course no policy or law is 100% effective. But even if just a few dog owners heed the advice and a bad situation is avoided, it's then worth the effort.

I wonder if Ortolani would have attempted the Sawtooth if he had known about this site. He clearly was not aware of the resources here, and it is obvious he was pretty uninformed about the Sawtooth and taking a dog into the high country. He knows a lot more now.
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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby pkripper » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:03 pm

Just an FYI. CNN is now reporting on this story on headline news. Apologies if you already know this or has already been posted.

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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby yourperspective » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:08 pm

I will report what I listed on the DenverPost article.

TLDR version: Tony is a great person with a Huge heart. He deserves to have his Dog back. Missy was treated as good as any dog could have ever wanted to be for the 5 years that he owned her.

And yes I would be happy to testify for him in court and help him pay the vet bills.

"It's funny how your perspective can change so much. If i would have read about this article and not known any of the parties involved I may have lead the March against Tony. I have more than once in my life made a snap judgement about a person or a subject.

Not again!

I have known Tony since we where both 14 years old and I would like to share a story with you and see if you still feel the same way about him as a person.

8 years ago My wife and I had a child. He was born with SMA and died 13 days later. Tony being the person he is came and helped me through, at a time when I did not know what to do. I was emotionaly parasyzed. I could not even fathom how to start making funeral arrangements. This is when my best friend stepped in. He was at my house the next day from 4 states away; made the funeral arrangements, PAID FOR IT, and helped me from checking out entirely.

This is one of many stories that I could tell you about who Tony is. He has always been there to take care of People. He is a good person with a huge heart.

He loved this Dog almost as much as his Child. I spoke with him after the incedinet and I can tell you that he was lost. The only thing I could compare his mental state with was one that I went through mentioned above.

It is easy to look back and say I should have done this or that; but almost all of us are not capable of it when the time comes.


Thank you very much to those that made the rescue and I hope that after reading this you can all think twice about posting your judgement when you lack the full knowledge of a situation/person.



Thank you for reading"

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Re: What happened to Missy?

Postby Hungry Jack » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:14 pm

yourperspective wrote:I will report what I listed on the DenverPost article.

TLDR version: Tony is a great person with a Huge heart. He deserves to have his Dog back. Missy was treated as good as any dog could have ever wanted to be for the 5 years that he owned her.

And yes I would be happy to testify for him in court and help him pay the vet bills.

"It's funny how your perspective can change so much. If i would have read about this article and not known any of the parties involved I may have lead the March against Tony. I have more than once in my life made a snap judgement about a person or a subject.

Not again!

I have known Tony since we where both 14 years old and I would like to share a story with you and see if you still feel the same way about him as a person.

8 years ago My wife and I had a child. He was born with SMA and died 13 days later. Tony being the person he is came and helped me through, at a time when I did not know what to do. I was emotionaly parasyzed. I could not even fathom how to start making funeral arrangements. This is when my best friend stepped in. He was at my house the next day from 4 states away; made the funeral arrangements, PAID FOR IT, and helped me from checking out entirely.

This is one of many stories that I could tell you about who Tony is. He has always been there to take care of People. He is a good person with a huge heart.

He loved this Dog almost as much as his Child. I spoke with him after the incedinet and I can tell you that he was lost. The only thing I could compare his mental state with was one that I went through mentioned above.

It is easy to look back and say I should have done this or that; but almost all of us are not capable of it when the time comes.


Thank you very much to those that made the rescue and I hope that after reading this you can all think twice about posting your judgement when you lack the full knowledge of a situation/person.



Thank you for reading"


Please, no more campaigning on Tony's behalf on these forums. It's not the place for it. Nor is the bashing that we saw in the previous thread. Any editorials about his character here won't change a thing.

I am sympathetic to Mr. Ortolani, and others aren't.

But we should not try the case any more in this venue.

Let's let the law handle this from here on out.

The focus needs to be on applying the lessons for greater good, and recognizing the efforts of the rescuers.
Last edited by Hungry Jack on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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