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Dog Found (and saved): Mt. Bierstadt!

Dogs, dogs and even some cats
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby DanR » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:58 am

To those who risked their own safety to bring Missy down, my hat is off. You set a stellar example and I hope that the rest of us can learn from your generosity, initiative and determination.

To Anthony, I respect your bravery in coming and joining this conversation. I hope you are able to work through this difficult time, learn from your mistakes and safely enjoy many future adventures in the mountains.

To Anthony’s friends who have posted here in support of Anthony, I applaud your willingness to jump in to a heated discussion and support your friend. Even if it can be hard to get any traction when speaking to a relatively unknown community, I think that your posting speaks well of both Anthony and you (though like others have said, I would think very carefully before posting private information on a public forum).

To those who have posted (or are thinking about posting) to the effect that Missy should not go back to Anthony, I urge you to channel your emotions over this topic into a positive action by contacting your elected officials, informing them of this event and encouraging them to put in place laws or regulations that would effect the outcome you desire should a similar event occur in the future. I have strong opinions about how this should resolve as well, but sharing them will not make me more right.

To the hundreds of you silently following this, I applaud your silence. For those of you who are experienced and recognize the mistakes made here, I admire your restraint. For those of you who are relatively new to spending time in the mountains or are visitors to our community, I sincerely hope that you can find the lessons available here.

And finally, to Missy, I’m very glad you’re okay.

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby crossfitter » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:59 am

Everyone relax. Breathe.

He screwed up - badly. He knows it. The fact that he is standing strong and owning it says a lot about his character. If we take his story at face value there's an argument to be made for incompetently bad judgement, but it's a stretch to call it outright abuse. Kudos to the rescue party, but everyone here is WAY too emotionally invested to deal with this properly. We have a justice system for exactly these kinds of things. Let a neutral court hear the case and decide who should get the dog. Everyone gets due process and the dog will find a way back to a loving home.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack


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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby MattK » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:00 am

shadykat5150 wrote:So many other people would have passed her on after the first hole in a shoe or ripped up book or pile of poo on the floor.Kat


Yep, and a lot of people would have also have tried to retrieve their beloved dog that they left behind.

And yea, I keep hearing from everybody how he doesn't give up. Well, he gave up on the dog, the very next frickin day.

As I posted earlier, Anthony and his posse keep missing the point; it's not the initial leaving behind part that people are pissed about, that is possibly understandable, and forgivable. What is troubling and unforgiving is the lack of responsibility toward the dog and not attempting to retrieve it after the fact, yet being a "loyal" and "loving" dog owner.

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby Matt » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:01 am

I agree with Tommy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH64dlgyydM
I like dogs even more than caravans, but I like most forgiveness, empathy, and the realization that bashing others via the internet based on my personal moral compass does little to make this world a better place.
People seem more than willing to make assumptions, cast aspersions, and basically toss out ugliness, and for what? Help me with this, please.
What good will come from any of the angry, accusatory, judgmental posts here?

I'm also on board with Fletch:
Fletch wrote:My number one concern is for the dog. Not for rubbing Anthony's face in the carpet and saying "bad dog!" repeatedly...
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby screeman57 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:01 am

Suggestion for Anthony and his friends, family, and supporters (which will, no doubt, get lost in the swarm of posts on this thread):

Stop stoking the fires by responding to this thread. You don't know these people, and we don't know you. Most of us who use this site have learned to take these "discussions" with a grain of salt. At this point, there is really nothing you can say that will have a positive effect on this situation. What can and will have a positive effect is what you DO. There seems to be no doubt that Anthony will get Missy back. So, learn from this, don't worry about what people think of you, and go and be happy that this turned out well for Missy.
"Never measure the height of a mountain until you have reached the top. Then you will see how low it was." -Dag Hammarskjold

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby SolarAlex » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:02 am

shadykat5150 wrote:This is Anthony's sister. I have known him his entire life. He has never blown anything off, given up, found that he couldn't be bothered. I am standing up for him right now as the person who knows him better than anyone else who has posted on this RIDICULOUS thread. GIVE HI DOG BACK TO HIM. I have read about this situation being a 'hoax', about how judgement has been passed, even before knowing the circumstances, about people who think they are better or would have 'done the right thing' and people who just want to FIX a horrible situation. The latter is the only thing that matters!!! Tony has had that dog for a very long time. He rescued her from a bad situation. She chewed up his house. She peed on his floors. She was a 'bitch' to train. But she is a great dog now! And spoiled! So many other people would have passed her on after the first hole in a shoe or ripped up book or pile of poo on the floor. This is an EXTREME situation. People do not always think clearly when they are GRIEF STRICKEN!!! Perhaps you head hunters would be more satisfied if he had KILLED himself over this! If you have doubts about his character or need to hear from his family, YOU CALL ME!!! He is beside himself with guilt and confusion. His heart is both broken and elated. He just wants his baby back. Everyone likes to think that they would make the best decisions when faced with traumatic situations and tragedy, but the TRUTH is that we are ALL HUMAN. We don't always fail. But we don't always succeed. WE ALL DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE!!! My phone is ON. I'm waiting to hear from you. 575-308-2019.

Kat


if it wasnt for this ridiculous thread your brothers dog is a corpse high up on mt evans. if it wasnt for this ridiculous thread, me and 7 other people wouldnt have gone up there and lugged her out of there. and, if it wasnt for this ridiculous thread, you people would just be continuing on about your business, without even a thought for the dog's suffering.

"He has never blown anything off, given up, found that he couldn't be bothered" really? you must have missed the part about he just left the dog up there for 8 days and didnt do a thing.

i especially like how you just demand the dog back, without even a thank you to the people who went and got her. stay classless.

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby Matt » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:02 am

edit, sorry. Double post. Server's busy!
Last edited by Matt on Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby Dex » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:02 am

shadykat5150 wrote:This is Anthony's sister. I have known him his entire life. He has never blown anything off, given up, found that he couldn't be bothered. I am standing up for him right now as the person who knows him better than anyone else who has posted on this RIDICULOUS thread. GIVE HI DOG BACK TO HIM. I have read about this situation being a 'hoax', about how judgement has been passed, even before knowing the circumstances, about people who think they are better or would have 'done the right thing' and people who just want to FIX a horrible situation. The latter is the only thing that matters!!! Tony has had that dog for a very long time. He rescued her from a bad situation. She chewed up his house. She peed on his floors. She was a 'bitch' to train. But she is a great dog now! And spoiled! So many other people would have passed her on after the first hole in a shoe or ripped up book or pile of poo on the floor. This is an EXTREME situation. People do not always think clearly when they are GRIEF STRICKEN!!! Perhaps you head hunters would be more satisfied if he had KILLED himself over this! If you have doubts about his character or need to hear from his family, YOU CALL ME!!! He is beside himself with guilt and confusion. His heart is both broken and elated. He just wants his baby back. Everyone likes to think that they would make the best decisions when faced with traumatic situations and tragedy, but the TRUTH is that we are ALL HUMAN. We don't always fail. But we don't always succeed. WE ALL DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE!!! My phone is ON. I'm waiting to hear from you. 575-308-2019.

Kat


Can you help me understand something?

Why are you, Tony, Tony's manager and his friends posting here?

I really do not understand what you are hoping to accomplish. To the best of my knowledge, the people here did not know Tony prior to those who posted here about him. So, he did not have a reputation here or friends here that needed to hear his side of the story.


So, what do you hope to accomplish?
Last edited by Dex on Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby tmathews » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:04 am

You know it's a shitshow when you click on the thread link on the homepage and by the time you actually get to the thread two more posts have been made (and now I can't post because every time I try "At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this.") . :lol: I'm posting now because I want to be a part of it. :mrgreen:

I don't hike or climb with anyone who wants to bring a dog along. It's just my personal preference. I did once and we ended up losing my partner's dog. If you want to see how a responsible dog owner reacts to having to abandon his companion, hearken to the story of Cooper.

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:04 am

Fletch wrote:I feel like Bill is in some back room flipping the switch that says "emergency power" - something like the utility company when Clark Griswold gets his Christmas lights to work in Christmas Vacation.

Only SNOW will end the madness

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby SolarAlex » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:05 am

HuskyRunner wrote:Forgive me if I seem extremely harsh here but I find the claims that Anthony is a responsible dog lover to be dubious. Missy was at 100 pounds yesterday when we carried her off the mountain after losing 10% of her body weight spending eight days laying alone in a talus field ~ 12,500 feet with him taking virtually no action to save, by his own admission he left her there to die. At the time he took her up the Sawtooth Missy was possibly 20 to 30 pounds overweight, experience with over 10 years in Dog Rescue and caring for 100+ dogs tells me Missy should ideally weigh around 80 pounds. Missy's nails were a bit on the long side and given her highly damaged pads she obviously was not used to walking the given terrain. To me he didn't have his dog's health in mind by letting her get fat, didn't have his dog's health and well being in mind when he decided to take her on a 3rd class route she obviously wasn't in condition to do, and finally didn't have his dog's welfare in mind when he left her there to die.

Talking to Alpine Rescue after we got back one of the members told me of an incident they were involved in at Herman Lake. Alpine Rescue was called to evacuate a St. Bernard from the lake after it had broken it's spine and the owner refused to leave the area for days to stay with his hurt dog. Staying by your injured dog and giving it what comfort and care you can is responsible ownership.

Years ago while mountain biking with one of our dogs I went over the handle bars and shattered my wrist. Despite being in pain one of my first actions was to put my dog an leash so she would be safe on the 6 mile walk back to the car. Keeping your dog's welfare in mind despite other concerns is responsible ownership.

Plenty of responders to this forum have commented on being prepared when hiking with your dog by carrying booties, pain meds, (aspirin), water, and any other needs your animal may have, good advice and responsible dog ownership. We put booties on Missy when we got to her and given that despite still having bleeding pads she was trotting down half the mountain without too much difficulty. Even after eight days starving in an alpine environment all she needed was a little help and care in getting her off the mountain. Had she been carried down to Abyss Lake, given some aspirin and dog booties I believe she could have gotten out via Scott Gomer and Burning Bear rather than being left to die.

We actually discussed evacuating Missy via Scott Gomer but discounted believing she was in worse condition that she really was. We took her out of the backpack because she was squirming and wanted her to stretch a little after being cramped for several hours. We were quite pleasantly surprised to see how well she got around on her own. I've had plenty of occasions where one of my own dogs got relief from a cut pad with just some pain med and a bootie, I'm fairly certain that eight days ago Missy could have gotten out with just a little bit of care, yet you carried her down a little bit and then left her to die.

The spot we found Missy was several hundred feet below the crossover on the Sawtooth, 1000 ft below the summit of Bierstadt, a spot that wasn't terribly likely to experience a lighting strike, sure, possible but likely. Having two people one of you could have easily stayed with Missy while the other went for help, sure, burning bear was 8 miles from where you were but a little walk is better than leaving your dog to die alone on a mountain side.

It was mentioned that some hunters gave you directions, did you consider asking them for help in getting Missy down?

Even in the event that I couldn't carry out one of my own dogs (unlikely because I have always considered being forced to prior to any trip) I would have attempted to enlist family, friends, acquaintances, hired help, whatever it took to get my dog back home. I would never have left my beloved friend and companion to die alone on a cold hillside. That eight total strangers were more willing than you to hike a short 4 miles in crappy weather to rescue a dog we didn't even know speaks volumes to me about your lack of commitment to care for Missy.

Given that you didn't take Missy's welfare in mind before taking her into the mountains, weren't willing to stay with her during her ordeal, didn't go back to provide her some comfort or attempt to get her out yourself (blisters, give me a freaking break), and apparently didn't do much of anything to save your dog prior to yesterday leaves me to say the following: You'll get Missy back when you pry her out of my cold dead hands!

BTW, I don't have her and do not know where she is at the moment.


=D>

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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Postby shea_nb » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:06 am

For all of you "Rationalizers", "Move On", "Let it go", lets think about something real quick. You can check any vet site or animal clinic and find out that dogs who suffer from severe dehydration will have permanent kidney and liver damage ranging from severe to not so severe. There is a very good chance that in order for this dog to live a long and healthy quality of life it will require monthly vet visits with blood work, medication and even shots. This type of care could cost upwards of $100 - $200 a month if not more. If someone didn't even want the burden of asking for help anyway he could find it, even if to just get the dog food and water till a real rescue could happen. What makes anyone think he will take on that sort of financial burden and on-going treatment knowing what has happened already. I guess for all of the "Give him a second chance." people it would be someone finding out the dog has died in a year or less due to improper medication and treatment. Something to think about.

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