Dog Found (and saved): Mt. Bierstadt!

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DaveSwink
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by DaveSwink »

[quote="live4pc"]
He made a mistake in judgement.
He has to live with it no one else does.[/quote]

No his dog will have to live (or die) with his lack of caring. Not a mistake in judgement, just a lack of caring. At what point would you have given up on your dog? The second blister?
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by evepin »

madbuck wrote:People are understandably upset, and one common thread is not understanding how this could happen. It's been mentioned briefly, but to play amateur psychologist, the owner had a highly stressful situation and was clearly in denial, which is a well-known stress response. This doesn't make it right -- a person involved in a hit-and-run accident might also have denial about it -- but the idea is that, as a way to cope, he did not believe that the dog was out there suffering. .
+1

If you are involved in a hit-and-run, and think your victim is dead and "not suffering", would that make it ok to leave the scene and not go back? A very weak justification to absolve your own feelings of guilt. Funny how people can rationalize anything.

Colorado still considers pets as personal property, and there have been petitions circulated to change that - many states now consider pet ownership as 'guardianship' which places more emphasis on responsible care.

Even if Missy is NOT returned to Anthony, nothing can stop him from going out and getting another dog. Hopefully he is sincere in his regret and sorrow, and has learned from this, and will take dog guardianship more seriously in the future.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by aortolani14 »

I am the marmot wrote:If all of what you say is true why didn't you atleast leave her with some water so that she had a chance?
Actually we gave her three bottles of water before we left, as I was hoping that there was a chance that Search and Rescue would be able to get her. We kept 1 liter for ourselves to get off of the mountain, and ran out as the trail to Scott Gomer Trailhead was very long. We took the risk of drinking from the stream to get ourselves out. Please do not make assumptions like that. This was not easy.
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darryle
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by darryle »

Thanks for the great 14er community to rescue and save a dog.

As a pet lover animal suffering is a huge burden on my soul. Everyone makes mistakes but the quote from State and Main says is best "Only second chance I know, is the chance to make the same mistake twice." The only way Missy should find her way back the the owner IMHO is they plead guilty to animal cruelty and abandonment, pay the fine and or community service. This is not 1980 where all you have is a newspaper and a land line phone. The decision made to leave Missy was acceptable, you "saved" yourself, but not driving back to one of the most accessible 14er trail heads or driving up Evans to ask for help, post a picture, or go hiking/searching for more than a week seems like an easy prosecution. Tough to imagine even a simple search is not going to point you to this website. I believe this site's community is very generous with time, dedication and knowledge and a simple post saying hey I screwed up and need help would have had "an army" out the next day to reunite the pet and owner. Stuff happens, if you left your pet to die and "accepted" that fate perhaps Missy is not for you. Maybe a visit to an animal shelter to adopt a new pet is the best choice.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by jtr1989 »

As someone who knows Tony and has seen his relationship with his dog:
Tony loves Missy. He is an incredible owner from everything I have seen in the past year and a half that I have known the two. I cannot imagine, myself, what it would have been like up there in the chaos of a storm. I do know, however, that it's not just as simple as "he left her there."
To my knowledge, Tony was with a friend, caught in a storm with Missy. Due to the conditions the three of them had taken a few falls together and were in bad shape both mentally and physically. Missy lost the will to walk and at that point Tony nor his friend left her. They took turns carrying a FULL GROWN GERMAN SHEPHERD on their backs (please keep in mind they were both injured as well).
I cannot imagine how Tony must have felt at the moment he realized his dog may be injured beyond repair as well as carrying her like that was physically hurting her even more. Missy shouldn't have been moving in her condition.
As a dog owner just consider this: you're stuck on a mountain after a long hike in a huge storm. Your dog is badly injured and has lost the will to even walk. Carrying her is hurting her, forcing her down the mountain is hurting her. (Hurting her to the point that you're scared she may lose her life if she continues). You yourself are scared for your own life. What would you do?
If you answer that you would push through no matter what, it's fairly clear that you have never been in a life threatening situation. When one fears for their own life, their state of mind is altered. The Tony that had to leave his dog on that mountain to save his and his friend's lives must have been in shock and fairly helpless because from what I have whitnessed, Tony would have done anything for that dog. To top it off, 5 years of love an affection with this one case of near insanity from fear, really? Does that override Tony's ability to be a fantastic dog owner?
It's easy to be ignorant when you don't know someone. Judging is so easy when you yourself have not walked in someone's shoes. We can all say, "I would do anything for my dog and in that situation I would have made sure that dog was okay." But how can we really know that if we weren't there?
Lastly, I would like to address what people are saying about Tony not going back for his dog. Again, we weren't there. Some people have the ability to look at dead animals and be okay, but what if Tony had gone back up there to find his best friend laying there dead? And whoever said he had moved on, how do you know that?

Ultimately, I don't believe there is any part of Tony that is proud or okay with the fact that he had to leave his dog on that mountain, so how about we stop acting like he doesn't deserve her in his life because we have no idea what it was actually like up there.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by shea_nb »

aortolani14 wrote:Thank you for the support. Thank you Thank you Thank you. I wouldn't mind being in a 9 News Story if I could thank everyone for rescuing her, and warn against taking dogs into tough spots like that. Seriously though I just want to find her and start dialog with whoever has her.

It was not abandonment in that sense by the way. It was a bad desicion that went very bad. I left her because I felt that I had to. I didn't go hiking with the intention of leaving my dog up there. Please if you know where she is and can put me in touch with her please help me. You all have done so much already.

Yes Kristen is real, she is a very close friend of mine.
YEAH!!! I know where your dog is at. On Sawtooth pass between Mt. Bierstadt and Mt. Evans. Why don't you go up there for 8 days with 3 litres of water and no food than get back with us. But don't tell anyone cause that would spoil the whole adventure. Wouldn't want anyone to knowingly go looking for you.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by DaveSwink »

[quote="darryle"]As a pet lover animal suffering is a huge burden on my soul. Everyone makes mistakes but the quote from State and Main says is best [b]"Only second chance I know, is the chance to make the same mistake twice."[/b] The only way Missy should find her way back the the owner IMHO is they plead guilty to animal cruelty and abandonment, pay the fine and or community service. [/quote]

This! Anthony, if you want to own your mistakes, I say own them, don't just make whiney excuses about how hard it was to drink creek water. Turn yourself in, plead guilty and ask for some community service, preferably working with abused animals. THAT would be credible ownership.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by angmhns »

Forgive? Yes I can do that......Forget? No that is impossible. As a person that does not climb mountains but has followed this thread since it was started and who relies on a dog to be able to function, I can not fathom what happened here. It is strictly my opinion that someone should get Animal Control involved so that the proper fines and/or removal of Missy is handled through them. Reading this thread it is my understanding that a dog rescue organization is already involved. The rescuers need to be reimbursed not only for their mileage but the risk that they put themselves at to go rescue this animal.

Anthony, What you did is deplorable. Leaving Missy up on that mountain without trying to go back after her. I don't care how many blisters you had on your feet. You obviously have friends that were thinking clearly. For you to simply say "I didn't think to put up flyers/posters" is just stupid. Missy is part of your family and you left a family member on the side of a mountain. Let me tell you that I am so terribly glad that I am not related to you. YOU need to go through some sort of animal ownership course and you need to step up and do whatever it is you need to do to PROVE that you can be a responsible owner. I do believe that charges should be filed against you and you should be subjected to some heavy fines and pay restitution.

Again, this is only one persons opinion as a dog lover and nonclimber.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by Fisching »

I'm just going to say that I'm glad this ended well and leave it at that. I doubt the owner or justice department will be asking me - or consulting this forum - for legal ramifications.
Peter Aitchison on the risks of rock climbing and mountaineering: "That's life, isn't it? We think the challenge and satisfaction you get from doing this is worth the risks."
"Respect the mountain. Train hard. Hope you can sneak up when it isn't looking."
"The mind is always worried about consequences, but the heart knows no fear. The heart just does what it wants."
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by ulvetano »

the all-knowing Live4One speaks again. great...

I hope the rescuers thoughtfully determine how to move forward and don't rush to give Missy back. The fact that this owner did nothing to retrieve his dog for a week is a fact. He didn't go back up, post pics, go to the TH and ask for help, nothing. There should be some type of repercussions for this guy. He doesn't just get to claim a mea culpa and request his dog back.
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by ulvetano »

dswink wrote:
darryle wrote:As a pet lover animal suffering is a huge burden on my soul. Everyone makes mistakes but the quote from State and Main says is best "Only second chance I know, is the chance to make the same mistake twice." The only way Missy should find her way back the the owner IMHO is they plead guilty to animal cruelty and abandonment, pay the fine and or community service.
This! Anthony, if you want to own your mistakes, I say own them, don't just make whiney excuses about how hard it was to drink creek water. Turn yourself in, plead guilty and ask for some community service, preferably working with abused animals. THAT would be credible ownership.
Agreed.
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Robzilla
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Re: Dog Found: Mt. Bierstadt!

Post by Robzilla »

live4pc wrote:
dswink wrote:
madbuck wrote:People are understandably upset, and one common thread is not understanding how this could happen. It's been mentioned briefly, but to play amateur psychologist, the owner had a highly stressful situation and was clearly in denial, which is a well-known stress response. This doesn't make it right -- a person involved in a hit-and-run accident might also have denial about it -- but the idea is that, as a way to cope, he did not believe that the dog was out there suffering.
What a load of crap. This rationalization can be applied to any irresponsible, heinous act. The fact is that the poor dog was out there slowly dying a horrible death of kidney failure due to thirst and Anthony was fully aware of it. Ponder that.
Let it go. Move on.

He made a mistake in judgement.
He has to live with it no one else does. Give the guy a break... the dog will if given a chance.
I think this is the first time I've agreed with you. :) The conversation that has to happen is between Anthony, the people who rescued his dog, and Missy herself, who will probably be ecstatic just to see him. What gets discussed in the peanut gallery is no matter to the issue, it's a private conversation that has to happen between the parties involved. And the dog should have some say as well. The guy screwed up, like live4pc said, the dog would forgive him, shouldn't we aspire to that nobility?
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