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"new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Colorado wildfires and flooding
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"new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby TallGrass » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:35 pm

Colorado Flood Towns May Come Back Less Diverse

"When the storm came, it swept away mobile homes, but left the new cafes, sushi shop, and revamped high school intact."

"the town's mayor, Julie Van Domelen, a consultant for the World Bank ... told the Denver Post she intends to build the town into something better than it was before."

"Former Mayor Tim Combs... 'It's going to upgrade the town. We're going to see nicer houses replace a house that wasn't so nice,' he said. 'Lyons is surrounded by protected open space, so there will be no place for the poor people to go.' "
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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby ajkagy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:12 pm

will it lose it's soul kinda like Boulder? hehe
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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby Brian Thomas » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:21 pm

Interesting topic...

This same story was discussed today on a housing/economics blog that I regularly read. While I don't expect that Lyons will ever become another Aspen, all signs point to many Colorado real estate markets becoming a two class society, much like California, divided between the rich and the working poor. And the "working poor" includes allegedly middle-class-income households who spend 40-50-60% of their income on housing because they signed on to fat mortgage payments well above what they could reasonably afford.
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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby wrxpilot » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:32 pm

Brian Thomas wrote:Interesting topic...

This same story was discussed today on a housing/economics blog that I regularly read. While I don't expect that Lyons will ever become another Aspen, all signs point to many Colorado real estate markets becoming a two class society, much like California, divided between the rich and the working poor. And the "working poor" includes allegedly middle-class-income households who spend 40-50-60% of their income on housing because they signed on to fat mortgage payments well above what they could reasonably afford.


The housing market in Colorado really is unbelievable these days. I remember when everybody that lived here was complaining about it in the '90s. Little did I know how "cheap" everything was at the time, even adjusted for inflation. My fiancé and I are completely priced out of the market right now. We could buy, but I REFUSE to be among the working poor. Living paycheck to paycheck, or having no money leftover for playing in the mountains? No thanks.

Brian, do you have a link to that blog? Sound interesting.

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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby ajkagy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:37 pm

wrxpilot wrote:
Brian Thomas wrote:Interesting topic...

This same story was discussed today on a housing/economics blog that I regularly read. While I don't expect that Lyons will ever become another Aspen, all signs point to many Colorado real estate markets becoming a two class society, much like California, divided between the rich and the working poor. And the "working poor" includes allegedly middle-class-income households who spend 40-50-60% of their income on housing because they signed on to fat mortgage payments well above what they could reasonably afford.


The housing market in Colorado really is unbelievable these days. I remember when everybody that lived here was complaining about it in the '90s. Little did I know how "cheap" everything was at the time, even adjusted for inflation. My fiancé and I are completely priced out of the market right now. We could buy, but I REFUSE to be among the working poor. Living paycheck to paycheck, or having no money leftover for playing in the mountains? No thanks.

Brian, do you have a link to that blog? Sound interesting.


It's pretty much a product of everybody and their brother wanting to move to CO in the last 5-10yrs. All the jobs are in the front range, so growth has just exploded. It's mind boggling every time I go back to the front range for a visit to see how much stuff has changed or is changing. I'm just hoping the western slope stays fairly quiet.
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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby John Landers » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:39 pm

Seems like a bit of hyperbole.

Many towns are not what they once were, such as Telluride, Boulder, Nederland, Fruita, Salida, etc. They have changed and developed, property values have gone up. Has that forced poorer people, people looking to escape out of these towns? Probably, although you can still see some holdouts. Even my west highlands neighborhood in Denver has changed dramatically in the past dozen years. Some would call it progress, some might call it overcrowding, others might call the denser neighborhood with residents presumably closer to work as something desirable for the environment. Most communities, large or small change over time or die, like Detroit.

In Lyons are the destroyed mobile homes in the lower part of town in the flood plain, while the new more upscale business which survived higher up? Or were the survivors just better built? Do you want to rebuild a ramshackle double-wide community down by the babbling brook?

What is the solution?

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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby Tony1 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:47 pm

ajkagy wrote:
It's pretty much a product of everybody and their brother wanting to move to CO in the last 5-10yrs. All the jobs are in the front range, so growth has just exploded. It's mind boggling every time I go back to the front range for a visit to see how much stuff has changed or is changing. I'm just hoping the western slope stays fairly quiet.


I hope so too because I'd like to escape to it. \:D/ But there are probably lots who think like me since towns like Montrose have exploded recently.

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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby Brian Thomas » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:59 pm

wrxpilot wrote:The housing market in Colorado really is unbelievable these days

We are currently in an "echo-bubble" of the 2005-2006 bubble, a direct result of the easy money policies of the Federal Reserve which have predominately benefited Wall Street at the expense of Main Street. And this is not a R versus D argument, so political trolls hold your fire.

The National Association of Realtors is one of the largest lobbying contributors in D.C. (to both parties). If housing was such a great "investment" as they promote, why do they need to dump so much money on Congress to pump it up?

If you are buying a house and planning to stay there for 7+ years, the math may work out in your favor. But if you are buying based on emotion and urgency, take a deep breath, take a step back, and re-think your decision.

I worked as a debt-pusher (drug dealer in pinstripes) for one of the TARP bailout banks in 2004-2006, so I know what I'm talking about. Don't listen to Realtors, because Realtors are LIARS.
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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby wrxpilot » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:25 pm

ajkagy wrote:It's pretty much a product of everybody and their brother wanting to move to CO in the last 5-10yrs. All the jobs are in the front range, so growth has just exploded. It's mind boggling every time I go back to the front range for a visit to see how much stuff has changed or is changing. I'm just hoping the western slope stays fairly quiet.


Yes, the change is a little hard to see sometimes. I grew up in Evergreen and Conifer during the '80s/90s. Then I lived in Golden in the late '90s/early '00s. Then I moved for about ten years and just recently came back. I don't even recognize my little towns anymore. Such is progress I guess. My job is very commutable though, so I'm seriously considering getting out of the Front Range.

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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby wrxpilot » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:28 pm

Brian Thomas wrote:We are currently in an "echo-bubble" of the 2005-2006 bubble, a direct result of the easy money policies of the Federal Reserve which have predominately benefited Wall Street at the expense of Main Street. And this is not a R versus D argument, so political trolls hold your fire.

The National Association of Realtors is one of the largest lobbying contributors in D.C. (to both parties). If housing was such a great "investment" as they promote, why do they need to dump so much money on Congress to pump it up?

If you are buying a house and planning to stay there for 7+ years, the math may work out in your favor. But if you are buying based on emotion and urgency, take a deep breath, take a step back, and re-think your decision.

I worked as a debt-pusher (drug dealer in pinstripes) for one of the TARP bailout banks in 2004-2006, so I know what I'm talking about. Don't listen to Realtors, because Realtors are LIARS.


Do you think a correction is in our future?

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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby ajkagy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:56 pm

wrxpilot wrote:Do you think a correction is in our future?


eventually the bubble in equities, the crushing US debt and fed pumping 85 billion dollars a month into bonds/mortgage backed securities will end badly. The economy will go into recession/depression again, rates will sky rocket when no one no longer wants to buy our debt and QE doesn't work, and our fiat currency is de-valued from the rabid money printing.

...yea I'd say a correction might happen :)
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Re: "new Lyons ... more like Aspen"

Postby tlongpine » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:01 pm

Compared to DC, NYC and San Fran Denver real estate is a bargain. I've lived in 3 of the 4, and would choose Denver 10 days out of 10.
I am unable to walk away from the mountain without climbing it. An unclimbed mountain tugs at my consciousness with the eternal weight of time itself. Until I've pressed my face into it's alpine winds, hugged it's ancient granite walls, and put it's weathered summit beneath my heal I'm unable to resist it's attraction.Knowing nature gives the mountain more time than she gives us adds urgency to the obsession. As has been said before; the mountain doesn't care.

It can wait forever. I cannot.

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