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Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:15 pm

Now that I've caught up on this thread...
:sleep:
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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby paully » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:21 pm

rijaca wrote:
planet54 wrote:That's a bunch of BS, Junior. As a person who started doing 14ers in the 70's with only the Ormes book as a guide I can tell you that with the plethora of info that is available now, doing an easier 14er today is akin to following a recipe in a cookbook. Not so much for the harder ones. Huron Peak for example, but there are several others, didn't have any trail at all when I climbed it. How can having a trail not be easier than bushwhacking, dealing with downed trees, willows, wet grass and bushes, routefinding ? Not to mention spending hours on slopes looking for a flat spots so you aren't on your toes all the time. With all due respect of course. :)


Pops, you're such a BAMF!

Those class 2 bushwacking adventures sure were way more difficult than the class 1 trail. Those grassy bushy slopes of Huron with downed trees were way more difficult than the yellow brick road that exists today. Or about that boardwalk across the leg swallowing muck of those pesky willows on Bierstadt? Another example of a class 2 adventure made way more easy with a yellow brick road. Or how about Tabeguache? Those nasty scree slopes from Jennings Gulch, or the hump up over Shavano from Blanks Cabin? Wait, that's prob'ly about same effort. Or Humboldt from the upper (former) S Colony Lakes TH, compared to starting several miles lower at the current TH. Yep, another example of way more difficult.

btw D'Arcy, I have been going back to hike/climb some of the 14ers, cuz I can't remember the first time. :roll:


again... yes, class 2 bushwacking is considerably harder than a class 1 trail. Considerably. Needing to exercise real route-finding skills makes a climb harder. What's interesting is that I can feel your sarcasm, yet you make many valid points to the contrary of what you're arguing for. You don't think the Bierstadt Boardwalk made the climb a LOT easier? Ever tried climbing Evans from Guanella TH (without climbing over the top of Bierstadt first)? The fact that you can come up with some examples where the hike has gotten longer (can you think of more than 1 or 2?) means nothing, climbing a 14er (by it's easiest route) has become easier over the past several decades, you're smoking something if you think otherwise.

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby paully » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:32 pm

Matt Lemke wrote:
Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?


Yes

To be quite frank, many of the 14ers prior to the days when everyone started hiking them were class 2. These ones now all have very well established trails to their summits. I personally consider 35 of the 14ers Class 1 since an established path can easily be followed the entire way to the summits.

Of the remaining 23, only 6 of them I consider Class 3... making the rest Class 2. But please; Don't let my west coast bias influence anyone though :wink:


OK, what's your point? If it's that California and Colorado have two different systems, yeah we all know that. So California would only call 6 of our 14ers 'Class 3'... so what? They still are what they are, all it means is that in California you consider 'scrambling' to be class 2. Personally I don't like that because in the Colorado system, you have clear delineation between 'trail hike' and 'bush-whack' and you have clear delineation between 'bush-whack' and 'scramble', then again between 'scramble' and 'climb'. Our ratings appear more granular, and therefore (in my opinion) of more value. But when it comes down to it, they're arbitrary scales and say nothing about the abilities of those who use them vs. the other.

btw, there are not 35 14ers with an established path to the summit, no way. Established and easy-to-follow route, yes. 'Path', no.

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby rijaca » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:38 pm

Back in the day when I climbed the 14ers, it was uphill both ways (CFI has fixed that). Made it way more difficult. (bonus vertical)

btw, according to my notes, on my July 4, 1984 hike of Huron, the crux was finding the TH.
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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby Bill G » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:56 pm

Nostalgia is not what it used to be!

You folks are way too funny. The only improvement we've made that made things significantly easier was the boardwalk we built in '99 thru the willows at Bierdstadt. Oh it was so much better spending 4 hours slogging thru the swamp. Really? It wasn't easy work carrying all that lumber down from the parking lot or getting pelted by the torrential rains as we (the volunteers) improved something requested by the FS and rec'd appreciation from tons of hikers over the years. There are a few people on staff but the people who lay out the trail, cook the food, get the tools and lead the trail crews are all volunteers.

Are you the same folks who complain about spotty cell phone reception? Oh, the nostalgia!

As far as 14ers, I think of most, no probably all, as touristy. Sure some are more difficult or dangerous than others. A few I've had all to myself from top to bottom during the summer. But once in a lifetime is plenty for me. It's not a good or bad thing climbing this limited number of peaks but personally I shy way from the yak routes. A lot of been there, done that. A few I've done more than once but not a couple of times in one summer like the OP. I subscribe to HYOH. BTW, there are more than 54 peaks in Colorado, just don't tell anyone.

I still volunteer with CFI and VOC but not nearly as much as I used to. Lend a hand and stop bitching. Maybe you'll learn why we do what we do.

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby painless4u2 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:20 pm

stop bitching
? :-s

Easy now. Let's try to be fair in this discussion, shall we? If you're referring to my posts on this thread, you'll see I'm not "bitching" about anything. I'm simply pointing out that the 14ers have, for better or worse, become easier, maybe easier than they needed to be, due to all of the trail enhancements. Maybe I should have said "becoming more tame" instead of easy. I also have said, several times, how much I enjoyed it and appreciated your (and others) work. Hardly bitching, wouldn't you say?
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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby jsdratm » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:24 pm

Bill G wrote:I still volunteer with CFI and VOC but not nearly as much as I used to. Lend a hand and stop bitching. Maybe you'll learn why we do what we do.


=D>

Bill, thanks for your volunteer work. Don't let a few ungrateful macho mountaineers get you down.

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby ChrisRoberts » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:45 pm

paully wrote:
Matt Lemke wrote:
Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?


Yes

To be quite frank, many of the 14ers prior to the days when everyone started hiking them were class 2. These ones now all have very well established trails to their summits. I personally consider 35 of the 14ers Class 1 since an established path can easily be followed the entire way to the summits.

Of the remaining 23, only 6 of them I consider Class 3... making the rest Class 2. But please; Don't let my west coast bias influence anyone though :wink:


OK, what's your point?


To quote one of Deuce's nuggets of truth: You cant spell "hey look at me" without lemke. Or something to that effect, I cant find the original post.

This whole "Is CFI/technology/internet/hiking boots/roads/grocery stores/disposable income making mountains easier climb" question would be avoided if people who needed a challenge to resurrect the lost "experience" would just set aside their high altitude egos and climb something lower than 13k where some of the advantages fall away.
Some rise, some fall, some climb to get to terrapin
Read all about my schemes and adventuring at NoCo Chris Latest TR: DeCaLibron

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby ChrisRoberts » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:46 pm

And no painless4u2, thats not really directed at you.
Some rise, some fall, some climb to get to terrapin
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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby painless4u2 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:51 pm

absurdly selfish
high altitude egos
bitching
ungrateful macho mountaineers


Whew!

You'd think I threw a sacred cow right on top of the barbeque.
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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby John Landers » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:01 pm

For the most part the 14ers are not that much different / easier today than 25 years ago. Sure the trail work has made a few of the easier ones like Bierstadt, Huron and Humboldt somewhat easier, but in the over scheme of things someone doing them in the summer months in the 1980's would find the difficulty of most of the peaks about the same today as back then, just more crowded. A fit hiker in the summer months anytime in the last 40 years can get up and down them without needing much in the way of mountaineering skills. I have done a lot of them multiple times and by alternative routes and they are not any different today than they were in the 80's and 90's. Is there more information available today? Sure there is and that is not a bad thing. The work CFI has done has helped to sustain them for future generations. All good.

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Re: Is The CFI Trail Work Making 14ers Too Easy?

Postby highpilgrim » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:28 pm

Sheesh!

Quit whining!

Easier? Yes. More beta, better approaches, improved gear, gps technology...on an on we can go. Yes, climbing teeners has gotten easier. Sorry Ricky.

But if you want wilderness, or at least solitude, it's all about personal choices and it's there for the taking.

Simple Rules:

1. Alpine Starts.
2. Avoid weekends.
3. Climb non-standard routes.
4. Peak traffic days: weekends and holidays. CLIMB A THIRTEENER.
5. CLIMB A THIRTEENER.
6. Don't be a tourist. Go places that tourists don't hang. See: Gore Range, IPW, many places in the SJs. Shite, even tourist dens of iniquity like Breckenridge are within easy range of hikes/climbs you'll see NO ONE on.

If you're a lazy ass that wants to do easily accessed, popular summits, during peak hours, you get what you deserve.

I've not been there yet, but I'm guessing that there isn't a crowd in Ruby Basin. Go there.
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