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## PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

djkest wrote:Hey Tallgrass, thanks for your informative post. When we drove by this sign last time, we tried to determine how close we had to be before we could read the bottom letters. I have 20/15 vision. We estimate you have 2-3 seconds to read the time and date ranges before you pass the sign. Then you have to recall the current date, and check the time, before you can determine if it is legally "night". When I previously saw the sign that said "night 55", I assumed (incorrectly) that since it was bright and sunny at 5:30 PM on Sept 2nd that it was not night time.

You'll notice in that photograph the picture was taken from about 20' away and it's still hard to read.

pkripper wrote:Drive the speed limit. It ain't rocket science. Take responsibility for your actions. A big part of the problem is people won't take responsibility for their actions. If you ... can't figure out a speed limit sign, take responsibility and quit putting blame on others.

My friend IS a rocket scientist with a Master's Degree, and he said it was confusing (and he wasn't even driving). It's pretty easy to figure out when you are sitting at your desk or chair and you have unlimited time to decode it.
1) Check the date range- compare to current date - many people don't know what the current date is off the top of their head.
2) Check the time range- compare to current time - this is easier, most cars display the current time. This is assuming your car's clock has been set appropriately
3) Using both logic checks, determine if it is in fact "Night" time as so defined. IF (time is in range) AND (date is in range) THEN "Speed Limit Catagory" = "Night"
4) Check the "Night" speed limit, determine the actual speed limit for this time and date, and adjust your speed accordingly.

Most people can't do that in 2-3 seconds while driving.

This is ridiculous lol why do you have to do all of that in the 2-3 seconds it takes to get to the sign????? It takes that much time than to figure out what month of the year it is? And if you're speed is over or under the number they give you? I don't think it takes a Masters in rocket science to read or understand these signs. And if reading AND memorizing information from a sign is too hard for someone, I don't think I want them on the same road as me in the first place lol

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

Of course it's ridiculous. Picture this- you've never seen this sign before and you drive past it, having 1 second to read it. Your ability to read and understand the sign in a short amount of time determines if you could be fined hundreds of dollars or not.

You aren't seeing it in person while driving. Your looking at a picture someone took from probably 20 feet away. At 55 mph your vehicle travels 80.67 ft/second. I'm not sure the bottom writing is legible from 80 feet away. That would give you less than 1 second to read and memorize it.

Edit: changed 2-3 seconds to 1 second to reflect the actual amount of time you can read the bottom part.
Last edited by djkest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

djkest wrote:Of course it's ridiculous. Picture this- you've never seen this sign before and you drive past it, having 2-3 seconds to read it. Your ability to read and understand the sign in a short amount of time determines if you could be fined hundreds of dollars or not.

You aren't seeing it in person while driving. Your looking at a picture someone took from probably 20 feet away. At 55 mph your vehicle travels 80.67 ft/second. I'm not sure the bottom writing is legible from 80 feet away. That would give you less than 1 second to read and memorize it.

that plus acting like the government doesnt make speed limit signs confusing on purpose in small towns is a laughable claim. or that they dont try to swindle money off tourists.

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

somethingrandom wrote: I too received a ticket in the area mentioned above for being 3 miles an hour over the 55mph limit at the bottom of a hill with my cruise set at the 55mph. Sure, I probably should have been paying more attention and depressed my brake pedal but when all was said and done the wonderful Chaffee County Sheriffs office took me for \$186-ish for being 3 mph over the speed limit at the bottom of a hill. No way you cant say it doesnt have A LOT to do with \$\$.

This has everything to do with money and nothing to do with serving and protecting the community. When police officers are encouraged to ticket otherwise law abiding citizens for doing a few mph over it can cause public resentment and distrust of police in general. Which is a shame because it undermines the many commendable police officers who strive to earn the public's respect. Hopefully the minority of the Chaffee County officers who sit at the bottom of a hill and wait until someone creeps a few miles per hour over the speed limit will eventually realize that it's not a productive or honorable way to serve as an officer.

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

I have no problem with most police offiicers. Two of my very good friends are both county sheriff's deputies in Colorado and I respect them both for the work they do. Neither of them particularly likes writing speeding tickets, and usually avoids it if they can- they would much rather bust drunk drivers.
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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

I'm gonna side with Tommy Dorr on this one.

I have absolutely NO RESPECT for cops, law etc. Of the times in my past that I've had dealings with law enforcement, I've only ONCE had a situation
actually come out amicably. I've been in court for minor traffic violations AND for some far more serious stuff. And sorry guys, but all I see on their part are potential
dollar signs.
Once I spent almost an hour, outside my vehicle arguing with the cop on that flat stretch just north of Leadville called Tennessee Park about how issuing a speeding
ticket at 3:00am is to my safety and benefit? The ramifications of hitting a deer, elk or skunk are much worse and act, at least in my opinion, as a better deterrent.
We spent like I said, near an hour talking about law enforcement politics, traffic, driving habits and personal safety (probably helped that I was a local). In the end, we saw the
situation from each others' side. The officer said, and I quote verbatim..."Because CDOT works with local law agencies to set the speed limits according to the lowest common
denominator (driver)." That one made me smile and laugh but I understood his point.

I understand more (now-a-days), about why the law acts as it does which, I think would be of great benefit to the police if they would be more transparent in not neccessairly what they
do but why. Seriously. How does a \$235 ticket assist someone in understanding why NOT to speed? The two don't mesh, they don't make sense. It's a deterrent only.
The real punishment comes when the insurance company raises your insurance premiums. NOW...we have a correlation that makes sense.
Would you take away your child's sippy cup for a week because they shat on the stairs? People are no different than regular animals. If the punishment doesn't fit the crime,
people get pissed off b/c it doesn't make sense.

I get it.
...Just because the speedometer goes up to 145 doesn't mean we get to drive that fast. Most people aren't capable of handling a vehicle that fast. The law should probably
revoke one's drivers license for that.
...Just because you drove yourself to the bar doesn't mean you should be driving yourself home. Drunk driving is so splashed across media & studied, it's apparent what the consequences are.
I actually think the legal ramifications for drunk driving are too light.
...Driving 3-15 mph over the limit. Ah! Money making opportunity. Which, most people are guilty of anyway. And yes, I've seen the damage of collisions from someone going
the speed limit vs. 15 over etc. It is surprisingly significant (I did a short stint as an EMT at Poudre Valley Hospital in Ft. Collins). But does that mean cops should enact a blanket rule for all
drivers at the behest of those who are lacking in the IQ dept or
are too busy with whatever gadget in their car that they can't pay attention to the road? It's a lot to ask, but I don't think so. But I can understand why they do. It's a good way to
avoid stereotyping people.
Look at RMNP. Camping up here, everyone is now required to have a bear-proof canister. Seriously? Because a couple/few idiots from New Jersey, Florida..wherever leave their
food on the ground and are now dead? At last tally, there were ~38 bears in the whole park. Now, ROMO has enacted a blanket rule to ALL campers. (I actually have it on direct authority on this
particular facet from ROMO law enforcement as to why this now exists; 10 years ago, it didn't, but I digress).

So I don't blame Tommy for being pissed off. I would be AND I would have written an even worse, scathing letter. BUT, we create the scenario we put ourselves in. No secret there.
Are monetary tickets efficient in deterring speeding? Debatable. People still speed. So are cops taking advantage of peoples' behaviors without actually doing anything constructive to change those behaviors?
Do tickets (\$\$) make sense? Not really. But it works as a good revenue generator for local agencies. So that facet will never change.
I've seen more negativity exude from law towards the general public than I have positive.

I still speed & I'll gladly accept the consequences of doing so, like pkripper said. But I also drive the limit more these days. Not because I want my friendly neighborhood 'fuzz' to order the
cinnamon twists and not the bland cake donuts but because the consequences
from my insurance company are more severe and messing my vehicle up from hitting an animal is going to put a serious stitch in my day.
We DO NEED law enforcement to protect people from ourselves. But man, some traffic laws are just. plain. stupid.

And as far as NOT being able to read the small print on a sign in 2 seconds, that's total crap. If your mind can make a decision as whether or not to order the #2 or the #6 value meal, brush your kids off
for being pesky, note the grumbling in your stomach, think how tasty a hamburger is gonna taste on the summit of Princeton the next afternoon AND note how cute the blonde is standing to
your right, you sure as sh*t can read a sign in 2 seconds. If not, than you probably shouldn't be on the road & I don't want you on the road anyway.
This is THE ONLY point I'll agree with you on, emohr.

The trick is similar to that quote from the IRS, "...The trick is to stop thinking of it as your money."
In this case, the trick, "....is to start thinking that driving is a privilege."
I absolutely hate it and despise it, but it's true.

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

Think of it as a tax on impatience, and (like the lottery) on poor math skills.

Driving Buena Vista to Leadville at 55 mph takes 38 minutes. Doing the same 35 miles at 65 mph takes 32 minutes. What are you really going to do with that extra 6 minutes?
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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

I feel tailgating outweighs any speeding violation in regards to "safety" - why not target more tail gators? Is it possibly because the police officers are not actually watching the traffic but instead have their eyes glued to their radar? If I m going ten miles an hour over the speed limit and no one is around, who am I endangering?

The transparency point is a great one I feel. If you want to be a little snake and hide behind corners and other areas just to trap people of course there is going to be backlash.
Last edited by J-RockandRockpile on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

Jim Davies wrote:Think of it as a tax on impatience, and (like the lottery) on poor math skills.

Driving Buena Vista to Leadville at 55 mph takes 38 minutes. Doing the same 35 miles at 65 mph takes 32 minutes. What are you really going to do with that extra 6 minutes?

going slower doesn't bother me at all. i never go more than 5 over the speed limit. it's the purposeful deceitfulness that is bad about this.

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

Hey Tallgrass, thanks for your informative post. When we drove by this sign last time, we tried to determine how close we had to be before we could read the bottom letters. I have 20/15 vision. We estimate you have 2-3 seconds to read the time and date ranges before you pass the sign. Then you have to recall the current date, and check the time, before you can determine if it is legally "night". When I previously saw the sign that said "night 55", I assumed (incorrectly) that since it was bright and sunny at 5:30 PM on Sept 2nd that it was not night time.

You'll notice in that photograph the picture was taken from about 20' away and it's still hard to read.

pkripper wrote:
Drive the speed limit. It ain't rocket science. Take responsibility for your actions. A big part of the problem is people won't take responsibility for their actions. If you ... can't figure out a speed limit sign, take responsibility and quit putting blame on others.

My friend IS a rocket scientist with a Master's Degree, and he said it was confusing (and he wasn't even driving). It's pretty easy to figure out when you are sitting at your desk or chair and you have unlimited time to decode it.
1) Check the date range- compare to current date - many people don't know what the current date is off the top of their head.
2) Check the time range- compare to current time - this is easier, most cars display the current time. This is assuming your car's clock has been set appropriately
3) Using both logic checks, determine if it is in fact "Night" time as so defined. IF (time is in range) AND (date is in range) THEN "Speed Limit Catagory" = "Night"
4) Check the "Night" speed limit, determine the actual speed limit for this time and date, and adjust your speed accordingly.

Most people can't do that in 2-3 seconds while driving.
Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:54 am

Most people with an ounce of common sense understand that if you're not sure of the limit you should probrably just drive the lower speed. Jim summed it up best with the differing speed comparison . If saving 6 minutes is worth the price of the ticket to you,Then don't whine when you get caught.

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### Re: PSA: Watch your Speed in Buena Vista / Leadville

pkripper wrote:
Most people with an ounce of common sense understand that if you're not sure of the limit you should probrably just drive the lower speed. Jim summed it up best with the differing speed comparison . If saving 6 minutes is worth the price of the ticket to you,Then don't whine when you get caught.

actually most people with common sense, when theres a daytime speed limit and a night time speed limit, will drive the daytime speed limit in the broad daylight. try to keep up.

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