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Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please
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Postby Scott P » Tue May 29, 2007 4:31 pm

Source? I just find it hard to believe considering some of the conjested states back east.


I said in the West, not the US.

Anyway, the maximum core to premimeter distance of any roadless area in Colorado is just over 8 miles in the Weminuche, by far the least in the west. Compare that with 38 miles in Montana, 60 miles (??) in Idaho, 19 miles in Utah, and so on. If you want I can read and post the exact figures since this is just off the top of my head.
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Bill, I respect you so much (seriously), but can I pick on you, hee hee? :D

1) Take family visiting from back east (they love it!)


Can they walk?

2) Get my kids up higher than they've been able to hike so far


How old? I would find it very reasonable to take a three year old, maybe two up from Guanella to Bierstadt. Is Evans from Guanella so much harder than Bierstadt?

3) For various types of landscape photos


Can be done on foot (or bike).

4) Check conditions for skiing in Summit Bowl (like Saturday)


Can be done on foot (or bike).

5) Take pictures of shedding goats in summer


Can be done on foot (or bike).

6) Check out trail modifications by the CFI, so I can update the site


Can be done on foot (or bike).

7) View elk herds in the fall


Can be done on foot (or bike)

OK, please don’t kick me off the site. :D

Great idea. All the coercive toll collectors quit, there'll be no one there to try to rob people.


Not so. They will just hire another one and train with taxpayer money as long as the policy stays the same. That's why you go after the policy makers and not the lowly workers.

Postby Bean » Tue May 29, 2007 4:41 pm

Scott Patterson wrote:Not so. They will just hire another one and train with taxpayer money as long as the policy stays the same. That's why you go after the policy makers and not the lowly workers.
Do it long enough and they won't be able to afford to keep training new lackeys. Any time a thug is forced out, it's a good thing - regardless of their level.

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Postby summitrunner » Tue May 29, 2007 4:57 pm

Scott Patterson wrote:Can be done on foot (or bike).

How about those people who can't walk or bike? Someone in a wheelchair or perhaps someone who has severe health issues can't walk or bike. Maybe it is the teacher in me but we shouldn't exclude those with health problems. If the roads were never put there they would have never had the chance to experience the joy of standing "on top of the world" like we do. I personally agree with the majority of the forum: if you want to stop and use the bathrooms or take a walk around the lake or use the trash cans you should pay (if those facilities are USFS facilities). If I want to take my granpa up to Mt. Evans and let him view the landscape for a few brief minutes and turn around to go Beau-Jo's for lunch on a Colorado State Highway that he has been helping to pay for longer than most of us have been alive I think he shouldn't have to pay.

Plus taking a young child on a 14er hike isn't the norm in our culture/society. Taking a young child for an exciting drive up to Mt. Evans could get that child excited to maybe hike it one day, I know it did for me (Trailridge Road, Eisenhower Tunnel, etc.).
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Postby ontopoftheworld » Tue May 29, 2007 5:14 pm

summitrunner wrote:How about those people who can't walk or bike?


As someone who always tries to keep those with disabilities in mind (my special ed teacher wife makes sure of that :) ), I have to say that Scott typically does a good job of accounting for those with disabilities in his posts. I believe he even mentioned it a couple pages back in one of his posts on this thread.

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Postby BillMiddlebrook » Tue May 29, 2007 5:18 pm

Scott,
I know your just kidding!
My grandmother would never have seen the view from Evans without a ride. And I WISH my daughter would hike Mt. Evans with me, but she is too busy growing up and getting interested in OTHER things.

As for my other trips up there, I suppose I could just walk from Breckenridge. :P
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Postby skier25 » Tue May 29, 2007 5:33 pm

Hmmm....

I personally have no trouble paying the fee...It's just that it seems there are a few kinks in the system we're trying to iron out; that's what I want done.

As far as the argument with the road to the top goes, we must remember, this is America! We're going to have at least one road to the top of a big mountain whether anyone likes it or not! Unfortunately, we have 2 commercial roads that charge for their use.

Scott Patterson wrote:Do you really want Colorado to be like back east where many of the highest mountains/hills have roads to the top?


Absolutely not, but I'd like to see them try putting a road up Crestone Peak! :lol:

I think the pros to having one road are what have been already mentioned:
-Access for the disabled
-A chance to show the real beauty of the mountains to people who have
never known the mountains who do not want to hike, or aren't
in the physical condition to climb a 14er.
-Take young kids on a fun daytrip that fits into a tight schedule.
(Bierstadt is a relatively easy 14er, but it is a 14er nonetheless, &
time and effort is involved).
-The ability to get off the mountain fast if there is an emergency with a
young child, or anyone for that matter.

Colorado has plenty of mountains, and I think we can spare one 14er for a road. (But not two roads. We need to pick our favorite [either Pikes or Evans]and demolish the other commercial road!) :P
Last edited by skier25 on Tue May 29, 2007 9:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Doug Shaw » Tue May 29, 2007 5:49 pm

skier25 wrote:Colorado has plenty of mountains, and I think we can spare one 14er for a road (but not 2. We need to pick our favorite and demolish the other). :P


Which "two "are you talking about:

Pikes
Evans
Bross/Lincoln
Antero

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Postby Todd Caudle » Tue May 29, 2007 6:09 pm

Let me preface this by simply saying, this is a matter of principle. Yes, there are other mountains to climb, other places to access, but that doesn't excuse the forced payment for something that shouldn't be charged for.

Having said that, I will freely admit that I want access to the Mt. Evans road because I absolutely love being up there photographing. I typically chase very fleeting moments, so it's great to have somewhere like Mt. Evans to be able to have easy access to miles and miles of alpine tundra, lofty peaks, wild animals, etc., without having to set out from the TH at 3a.m. to catch first light. It's the same reason I love four-wheeling in the San Juans (or elsewhere), because it allows me to chase very transient conditions. There's 50 other fourteeners that require climbing, and seas of peaks lower than that where effort is required to experience their hidden gifts; I want easy access to some places that already have roads, and I don't want to be essentially charged twice for the privilege.
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Forest Service has turned lawless

Postby alund » Tue May 29, 2007 7:59 pm

I have been studying the issue of the Forest Service and their lack of
respect for the law. They have invented a new term out of thin air.
"H.I.R.A.". It stands for High Impact Recreation Area. This is how
they are justifying the charging of fees on Mount Evans. A H.I.R.A.
doesn't have to have any improvements to charge. This is explained
in the following testimony before Congress.

http://www.westernslopenofee.org/NoFee/ ... imony.html

There are 2 organizations that are trying to keep on top of this lawless
behavior:

Western Slope No-Fee Coalition
http://www.westernslopenofee.org

Arizona No Fee Coalition
http://www.aznofee.org

Art Lund

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Postby skier25 » Tue May 29, 2007 9:52 pm

Doug Shaw wrote:Which "two "are you talking about:
Pikes
Evans
Bross/Lincoln
Antero


See above. I edited the post for clarification :roll: . I meant roads that charge money. According to my knowledge, I don't think the roads up Bross/Lincoln or Antero charge. Is there a road up Culebra?
Carry an ice axe and a clear mentality; they can both save your life.
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Postby Ken Gross » Tue May 29, 2007 10:24 pm

2) Get my kids up higher than they've been able to hike so far


Scott Patterson wrote:
How old? I would find it very reasonable to take a three year old, maybe two up from Guanella to Bierstadt. Is Evans from Guanella so much harder than Bierstadt?
:lol:

Yes it is much harder! Long approach with no real trail. Not to mention the Willow Bash without the nice elevated walkways! It is however a super route, but I dont think most kidos younger than 15 would be up for the slog. [-(
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Postby ontopoftheworld » Wed May 30, 2007 7:31 am

skier25 wrote:Is there a road up Culebra?


Never been up Culebra, but I don't think so. There is a significant fee to climb that mountain, though. I think it's $100.

Someone who knows what they're talking about... feel free to correct me.

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