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Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby CorduroyCalves » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:26 am

Slow Moving Fun Seeker wrote:I've have a very different take on this situation and will stick my neck out to describe it to you.

I climbed Mt. Evans from Guanella Pass earlier this year. By the time I got to the top of the gulley, I was aware that I was moving very slowly (even for me) and seemed to be unusually fatigued. By the time I got about mid-way into the West Ridge trail, I started feeling dizzy--very dizzy and had a moderate headache. There were 2 or 3 times when I felt like I was going to pass out. Classic AMS symptoms, right? Well, my partner had already summited and I needed to suck it up and get up there--really no other choice. I thought that maybe I was dehydrated and was bonking and needed calories. So I made the summit, sat and rested, drank a ton of water and ate a ton of food. Nothing helped. I found a FS employee who was about to clean the restrooms and told him my situation. He drove me and my partner all the way down to Echo Lake where my wife picked me up (I had called her from the summit). This guy took good care of me and I owe a big debt of gratitude to him. If that's what my $10 pays for, then I'm happy to pay. I needed help and got it.

BTW: it wasn't AMS, as it did not get better upon getting down. I have since had extensive tests for the dizziness (MRI, etc.) and nothing has turned up, so it's somewhat of a mystery. If this was going to happen on any 14er, I was very glad it happened on Evans where I could get help. (I've also taken advantage of the nice clean restrooms at the top and I also appreciate that my $10 pays for that.)


Excellent post, SMFS. Personally, I don't see the big deal with 10 bucks. Putting the private/public land difference aside for a minute, I wonder if the same people who are unhappy with paying $10 to access this area are the same ones who've paid $100 to climb Culebra.
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby Slow Moving Fun Seeker » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:45 am

VWLover wrote:Excellent post, SMFS. Personally, I don't see the big deal with 10 bucks. Putting the private/public land difference aside for a minute, I wonder if the same people who are unhappy with paying $10 to access this area are the same ones who've paid $100 to climb Culebra.


Well, I paid the $100 for Culebra, had a blast, met some great folks, and thought--all things considered--that it was worth it. It was the most pristine 14er I've done and with only 20 people on the mountain all day (and I had diner the night before with most of them), I thought it was an OK deal. The $10 for Evans is at the noise level I think. Heck, it's $8 for Brainard Lake and the restrooms are not nearly as clean as on Evans. :D
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby CorduroyCalves » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:21 pm

Slow Moving Fun Seeker wrote:
VWLover wrote:Excellent post, SMFS. Personally, I don't see the big deal with 10 bucks. Putting the private/public land difference aside for a minute, I wonder if the same people who are unhappy with paying $10 to access this area are the same ones who've paid $100 to climb Culebra.


Well, I paid the $100 for Culebra, had a blast, met some great folks, and thought--all things considered--that it was worth it. It was the most pristine 14er I've done and with only 20 people on the mountain all day (and I had diner the night before with most of them), I thought it was an OK deal. The $10 for Evans is at the noise level I think. Heck, it's $8 for Brainard Lake and the restrooms are not nearly as clean as on Evans. :D


Just to clarify, I wasn't calling anyone out, just curious to know of the correlation/contrast between the two.

Like your signature, BTW. Says a lot in only a few words.
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby JoeyJ » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:03 pm

I think most folk who are upset with the $10 are fee are not complaining about having to part with 10 bucks- it's the principle of what is happening.

In the case of Culebra, I've been there and paid, and had a blast also. But when there it is clearly understoond one is paying for rights to be on land that is privately owned.

In the Evans road case, I can see if the FS wants to charge for using their ammenities, restroom- or whatever they have there- but, they are wanting to charge 10 bucks to the avg. hiker using the road that they don't own, and parking on the side of the road that they don't own- from what I understand? And I'm not an expert on the matter, but surely wouldn't want to pay this fee no matter what the cost- even if it was a dime- it just doesn't seem right? How can they do that!? Seriously. It seems the goverment is no longer serving the public when they do this, but rather misusing the power entrusted to them.

Glad they had a nice FS employee there to help you when things got rough SMFS! And you definitely got your 10 bucks worth :)
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby CorduroyCalves » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:15 pm

I know it's the principle of it, principle is why I won't pay $100 to climb Culebra. I'd rather pay for ten trips up Mt. Evans than one up Culebra.
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby cftbq » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:37 pm

Slow Moving Fun Seeker wrote:Well, I paid the $100 for Culebra, had a blast, met some great folks, and thought--all things considered--that it was worth it. It was the most pristine 14er I've done and with only 20 people on the mountain all day (and I had diner the night before with most of them), I thought it was an OK deal. The $10 for Evans is at the noise level I think. Heck, it's $8 for Brainard Lake and the restrooms are not nearly as clean as on Evans. :D


The important difference is that Culebra is on private land, and always has been. No claim has ever been made that it belongs to the public.
Mt. Evans, OTOH, is on public land. We are all taxed to pay for its maintenance in that status. The amount of money involved is simply not the point. The difference between public and private is.
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby CorduroyCalves » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:02 pm

cftbq wrote:
Slow Moving Fun Seeker wrote:Well, I paid the $100 for Culebra, had a blast, met some great folks, and thought--all things considered--that it was worth it. It was the most pristine 14er I've done and with only 20 people on the mountain all day (and I had diner the night before with most of them), I thought it was an OK deal. The $10 for Evans is at the noise level I think. Heck, it's $8 for Brainard Lake and the restrooms are not nearly as clean as on Evans. :D


The important difference is that Culebra is on private land, and always has been. No claim has ever been made that it belongs to the public.
Mt. Evans, OTOH, is on public land. We are all taxed to pay for its maintenance in that status. The amount of money involved is simply not the point. The difference between public and private is.


I'll take "things we already know" for $200, Alex.

I would beg to differ re: money, though. If they were charging $1 instead of $10, hardly anyone would bat an eyelash.
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

"God has cared for these trees, saved them from draught, disease, avalanches, and a thousand straining, leveling tempasts and floods; but he cannot save them from fools; only Uncle Sam can do that."--John Muir

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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby paradiso » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:47 pm

Anyone ever thought how, with Mt Evans being so close to Denver, if there wasn't the "unconstitutional" charging of 10 bucks, it would be a fricking I-70-style traffic jam up there. Seriously, since so many people on this site are freaked out by the 10 bucks, think how many regular joes who are just casual nature admirers (instead of 14er climbers) balk at the 10 bucks and stay put at Echo Lake. Without the fee, all those folks at Echo Lake would be driving up top with you.

No disrespect to all you folks on the other side, but this controversy is a bit ridiculous. If the 10 bucks keeps the masses in check just a little bit, then I, along with all the other bighorn sheep up top, owe thanks to the FS.

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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby ajkagy » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:14 pm

[quote="JoeyJ"]In the case of Culebra, I've been there and paid, and had a blast also. But when there it is clearly understoond one is paying for rights to be on land that is privately owned.
[quote]

I have no idea why anybody in their right mind would want to pay $100 to walk up culebra. Yea I guess some people just want to say they walked up all of Colorado's 14ers, but isn't that defeating the point of climbing in the first place? If peak bagging keeps the crowds away from some of the best peaks in the state since they aren't 14ers then I'll take it :D
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby JoeyJ » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:45 am

ajkagy wrote:
JoeyJ wrote:In the case of Culebra, I've been there and paid, and had a blast also. But when there it is clearly understoond one is paying for rights to be on land that is privately owned.

I have no idea why anybody in their right mind would want to pay $100 to walk up culebra. Yea I guess some people just want to say they walked up all of Colorado's 14ers, but isn't that defeating the point of climbing in the first place? If peak bagging keeps the crowds away from some of the best peaks in the state since they aren't 14ers then I'll take it :D


It was more than worth it climbing Culebra! But I can see where you're coming from. I didn't ever want to climb culeb at first either, IF I was bagging it just to check another peak off the list. When looking at all the fun that is had in group clilmbs there on trip reports- I had to join the fun :)

Anyway, being from out of state, each 14er I climb prob ends up costing me 100 bucks or so, when figuring in all the expenses. In the case of Culebra, it was 200 bucks~
... And to think I could have driven up mt. evans 20 times for that!
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby KeithK » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:49 am

JoeyJ wrote:It was more than worth it climbing Culebra! But I can see where you're coming from. I didn't ever want to climb culeb at first either, IF I was bagging it just to check another peak off the list. When looking at all the fun that is had in group clilmbs there on trip reports- I had to join the fun :)


I couldn't agree more! I had a blast on that mountain, and being part of the group added to the experience. It was worth every penny, in my book.
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Re: Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Postby Dave » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:56 am

KeithK wrote:
JoeyJ wrote:It was more than worth it climbing Culebra! But I can see where you're coming from. I didn't ever want to climb culeb at first either, IF I was bagging it just to check another peak off the list. When looking at all the fun that is had in group clilmbs there on trip reports- I had to join the fun :)


I couldn't agree more! I had a blast on that mountain, and being part of the group added to the experience. It was worth every penny, in my book.


+1

I rank Culebra as one of the top 5 in my (admittedly small) list.

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