Forum
Buying gear? Please use these links to help 14ers.com:

More info...

Other ways to help...

What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please

What would be a reasonable fee for accessing a popular 14er?

$0
118
54%
less than $5
23
11%
$5
35
16%
$10
23
11%
$20
12
5%
more than $20
8
4%
 
Total votes : 219
User avatar
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:10 pm
Location: Burton, OH

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby edhaman » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:16 pm

The people (like me) who would complain about a $2 (or $5, $10, etc.) fee are not among the relatively few who would pay $100 for Culebra.

While the health benefits of climbing are unquestionable, the government doesn't really care about our health. It only cares about control and taxation.

Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:13 am

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby SteveBonowski » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:57 am

Funny how this thread was dormant for over a year and then got revived. Same arguments too.

For the over-50 percent who voted for no fee, how many of you contribute to groups like CFI, CMC, WRV, RFOV, etc. who actually do work on 14ers? Even better, how many actually volunteer for 14er trail crews with any of these groups?

User avatar
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:24 pm

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby DArcyS » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:53 pm

SteveBonowski wrote:Funny how this thread was dormant for over a year and then got revived. Same arguments too.

For the over-50 percent who voted for no fee, how many of you contribute to groups like CFI, CMC, WRV, RFOV, etc. who actually do work on 14ers? Even better, how many actually volunteer for 14er trail crews with any of these groups?


This just cuts to the core of human nature. Why are you trying to depress me on a Friday afternoon, Steve? :)

D'Arcy

User avatar
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:12 am

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby Hungry Jack » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:33 pm

SteveBonowski wrote:Funny how this thread was dormant for over a year and then got revived. Same arguments too.

For the over-50 percent who voted for no fee, how many of you contribute to groups like CFI, CMC, WRV, RFOV, etc. who actually do work on 14ers? Even better, how many actually volunteer for 14er trail crews with any of these groups?


Those are the right questions. I voted no fee, but generally feel very strongly that you should pay for what you consume.

Thanks for the kick too. I finally got off my rear and bought a 5-year CORSAR card online.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT TOOTING MY OWN HORN. JUST TRYING TO ILLUSTRATE DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET INVOLVED.

I need to donate to CFI. I have supported the Ozark Trail Association in my native Missouri for years, both financially and through trail-building (6 outings). And here in Chicago, I founded and preside over a small organization that has raised $20,000 and built a community greenspace for our many children. It's not that I am altruistic, but I want my neighborhood to look nice and my son to have a safe place to play.

Honestly, I get more satisfaction out of building trail in Missouri or picking up trash on the street in my Chicago neighborhood than I do writing checks. But, organizations like the Ozark Trail Association and CFI are very, very effective and worth supporting. There are lots of sham non-profits out there, but the OTA and CFI are two of the best run non-profits I have encountered. Ever.
I need more dehydrogenase.

User avatar
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:20 pm
Location: Land of Fruits and Nuts

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby painless4u2 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:55 pm

I voted no fee, but generally feel very strongly that you should pay for what you consume.


Not sure hikers "consume" 14ers, but the whole point of public lands is they belong to everyone, available to everyone. Contributing to CFI is great, but additional government fees assessed for the right to hike our public lands, not so much.
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9

Bad decisions often make good stories.

"Well, that didn't go as expected." - Brett Maune

User avatar
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:39 pm

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby greenhorn1 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:26 pm

SteveBonowski wrote:Funny how this thread was dormant for over a year and then got revived. Same arguments too.

For the over-50 percent who voted for no fee, how many of you contribute to groups like CFI, CMC, WRV, RFOV, etc. who actually do work on 14ers? Even better, how many actually volunteer for 14er trail crews with any of these groups?


I vote a HUGE $0 and I have a 5 mile section of the Ozark Trail adopted I maintain. I also do tons of other volunteer work so that theory is bunk.
People volunteer for the OT to keep it looking great and usable and nobody pays to use the trail. It should stay that way. Same with the 14ers. All fees do is create extra bureaucracy and provide a way for some private greedy corp. to win/swindle a contract for the fee collection. Then, they tack on their own fees just like you see now in all of the national campgrounds and food services. Campgrounds charge $14-20 for a volunteer to keep up a site with a port-a-potty and you have to reserve online and are charged another fee on top of that. I'm tired of all the fees just to enjoy nature!
Choose only one master - Nature. Rembrandt

User avatar
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:12 am

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby Hungry Jack » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:18 pm

I would argue that hikers absolutely do "consume" 14ers, or whatever land they tread upon. The ability to hike a 14er without significantly impacting it largely depends on the construction and maintenance of well-designed roads and trails. This incurs significant costs. The marginal cost of an individual hiker scooting up Grays and Torreys is relatively small, but it requires considerable capital investment to enable this in a sustainable way.

And +++ to the argument against fees based on administrative complexity. I am not sure I trust our government to spend these revenues wisely. That is why supporting organizations like the Ozark Trail Association and CFI is so wise. They are extremely well run, highly focused on specific areas (you know where your money goes), and produce tangible results (excellent trails).

I just hope we continue to build an ethos where private citizens work to preserve these assets because government is failing. My little park organization in Chicago is now expanding its role to replace street trees on the block. Why? Because Chicago is broke and can no longer afford to buy new trees.

In simplest terms, we are the government. The 14er community should take charge of caring for 14er lands if the federal government is failing to do so. Thank god for CFI. They deserve our support.
I need more dehydrogenase.

Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:52 am
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby jdawud » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:19 am

I voted $10, but would like to say that all public mountains should be free, but that if you enjoy it you should make a donation (with in your means) to an organization that maintains trails or does other service of the 14ers. Or volunteer on a trail crew. Giving to what you love isn't a fee, it's a gift.

Junaid Dawud
www.14ersthruhike.com
Junaid 'Speshul 41' Dawud
www.14ersthruhike.com

Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:45 pm
Location: Conifer, CO

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby CRSpeedy » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:36 am

CorduroyCalves wrote:I'd rather pay $5/ea to climb 30 14ers on public lands than pay some rancher $150 to climb his.

I think we're extremely fortunate to be able to access a rancher's private property for any cost, let alone a mere $100. If I owned a ranch, I can't say I'd be too thrilled over the prospect of thousands of hikers on my property, simply because of an arbitrary goal of climbing all mountains over 14,000 feet. Especially considering the liability involved with so many hikers on my property.

With public lands, however, I am absolutely against any fees. I've already paid my fees in the form of taxes. The 14ers residing on public land belong to us, not the government. The government / forest service has absolutely no right to charge ANY fee.

Unfortunately, our country is on a downhill path lately, so I can't say I would be surprised if fees are put in place one day, with the rationalization of "protecting our lands," or the addition of a public restroom that they feel entitles them with the ability to charge a fee. And you can be sure that $5 fee would only last one or two years. Then it will become $10, then $20... once those floodgates are open, there's no going back.

Online
User avatar
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:05 pm
Location: Aurora, CO

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby JROSKA » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:42 pm

CorduroyCalves wrote:I'd rather pay $5/ea to climb 30 14ers on public lands than pay some rancher $150 to climb his.


Did some quick math. Thirty 300-mile round trips to 14ers, in a vehicle that gets 30 mpg, comes out to $900 in gas alone. That's quite a generous contribution to Big Oil on your part, as you make your statement toward the rancher.

User avatar
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 10:48 am
Location: Denver

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby jmanner » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:13 pm

greenhorn1 wrote:
SteveBonowski wrote:Funny how this thread was dormant for over a year and then got revived. Same arguments too.

For the over-50 percent who voted for no fee, how many of you contribute to groups like CFI, CMC, WRV, RFOV, etc. who actually do work on 14ers? Even better, how many actually volunteer for 14er trail crews with any of these groups?


I vote a HUGE $0 and I have a 5 mile section of the Ozark Trail adopted I maintain. I also do tons of other volunteer work so that theory is bunk.
People volunteer for the OT to keep it looking great and usable and nobody pays to use the trail. It should stay that way. Same with the 14ers. All fees do is create extra bureaucracy and provide a way for some private greedy corp. to win/swindle a contract for the fee collection. Then, they tack on their own fees just like you see now in all of the national campgrounds and food services. Campgrounds charge $14-20 for a volunteer to keep up a site with a port-a-potty and you have to reserve online and are charged another fee on top of that. I'm tired of all the fees just to enjoy nature!


Personally, I am not opposed to a very small fee, maybe you could pay it up front and get a sticker or some s**t (think this was address like two years ago on this thread). However, my biggest concern is exactly what you raised: The bureaucracy costs more than what is gained back- particularly if some private enterprise with profit as its goal gets involved! I still can't believe that we have privatized the management of public camp grounds! Lets give a great big pat on the back to the Bush Administration's wise decision to privatize public services. =D> -back to the point: Maybe we should have a 14er or CFI plate which pays directly into the CFI fund. Would be cool to have a Colorado plate with Long's peak or Crestone Needle on it, etc
A man has got to know his limitations.-Dr. Jonathan Hemlock

User avatar
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:40 pm
Location: New Castle, CO

Re: What would be a reasonable fee for a popular 14er?

Postby Michael J » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:16 am

My answer would be in my best Michael Corleone voice: "You can have my answer now, Senator if you like. My final offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally." :twisted:

"I've often heard a voice call down to me
If you'd climb higher you'd find wondrous things to see..."

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest