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Fees for South Colony Basin

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please

Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby Jon Frohlich » Sun May 16, 2010 9:15 am

That's not what the article says at all. It says we might see more fee proposals after this one. I stress the word 'might'. The article is speculation at best and paranoia at worst. If anyone actually believes that we will see a fee and permit system for all the 14ers (or let's say even half of them) by 2012 then I'll be happy to take bets with them that they are wrong. I'll make a fortune. Stepping up plans to finish based on that article doesn't make any sense at all.

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby sunny1 » Sun May 16, 2010 9:34 am

I have not read all the posts in all the threads re: this issue. Apologize if I'm stating things others have already covered.

The article in the Denver Post raises some questions.
For instance, there's always a "cause and effect" when action such as this is taken. What will some of the unintended "ripple effects" be that may occur due to the proposed fee system?
For example, in 2009, the SCL TH saw increased traffic - my observation only, do not have hard data - because of the upcoming TH move that nows adds additional miles to any of the hikes/climbs in the area. This certainly increased the amount of human waste in the area. Why doesn't the USFS add a compost toilet in heavier trafficked areas?
Will other TH's in the area then receive additional traffic by those wishing to avoid the fee, therefore increasing the "human footprint" in these regions, prompting further fees?

Do more of us passionate about the mountains need to do more? Do we need to contribute more to the CFI (as able)? Do more of us need to volunteer with the CFI?

My concern is if a fee system is passed at SCL, other areas will begin doing the same.
Just my 0.02
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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby lodidodi » Sun May 16, 2010 9:50 am

Front page of Denver Post today with quotes from Bill

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby coloradokevin » Sun May 16, 2010 10:15 am

DENVER POST ARTICLE wrote:Smith is ready for the blasting. Knowing that opponents tend to be the most clamorous, Smith said he'd be "ecstatic" if he received "reluctant support" from 20 percent of those who deliver their thoughts on the proposal.


So... If only 20% of the people who weigh in on a plan support it, that now makes it a good plan? I think I see the writing on the wall on this one! No matter what we say, the fees are coming.

$20/night to camp in a wilderness. That's nuts.

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby louguy231 » Sun May 16, 2010 10:29 am

As I read the article, I was reminded of the Founding Fathers of our country when they discussed payin the taxes that England had put upon their heads to pay. They said and I paraphrase, if we succumb to these demands we wil become like Ireland. We will have more and more taxes put upon us until our nation has the life choked from its infant body. We need to stand fast against this oppression and fight the tryranny that it brings. I am not a teabagger or a freak about the Founding Fathers, but when I can graft an argument from the annals of history into current situtions I will do so. If the fee was a one time fee of say $100 for all the fourteeners, I could handle this action. If we take our hint from this article, if a fee of $10 is payed by day hikers and you day hike all 53 "gov't owed peaks" thats $530. If you camp its $1060. I could go to south america, live like a king for a few weeks and climb several of their peaks for maybe $500 more and get a nice vacations out of it. CO and the US forest service welcome to globalization, You ain't the only business in town.

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby fourseasonhiker » Sun May 16, 2010 11:24 am

Thank you Sunny1. I totally agree. It's called Dispalacement. We learned all about those kinds of things, and about the tactics used to decrease use, in my Natural Resource Recreation and Tourism classes at CSU. I just graduated from there with my Parks and Protected Areas Management degree on Saturday.

Any fee increase, and permits, which are bound to happen (yes, they were just discussing this very thing in one my last classes this semester that just ended) will indeed displace people to other areas.
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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby lovskiing » Wed May 19, 2010 8:25 am

How about a compromise: volunteer one day to work on trail maintenance and get a free access for a year or pay the fee instead of volunteering. Many of the trail users already volunteer so it makes no sense to charge them a fee for use of trails they helped to build and maintain. This way, hikers would have a choice and Forest Service (and the trails) would benefit either way.
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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby randalmartin » Wed May 19, 2010 9:15 am

lovskiing wrote:How about a compromise: volunteer one day to work on trail maintenance and get a free access for a year or pay the fee instead of volunteering. Many of the trail users already volunteer so it makes no sense to charge them a fee for use of trails they helped to build and maintain. This way, hikers would have a choice and Forest Service (and the trails) would benefit either way.


I think that is a great idea.

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby Matt » Wed May 19, 2010 10:00 am

lovskiing wrote:How about a compromise: volunteer one day to work on trail maintenance and get a free access for a year or pay the fee instead of volunteering. Many of the trail users already volunteer so it makes no sense to charge them a fee for use of trails they helped to build and maintain. This way, hikers would have a choice and Forest Service (and the trails) would benefit either way.


How about this compromise?
Concerned citizens can volunteer their own money to cover the fees of those who reject the notion that fees should be charged for use of public lands that offer no amenities paid for by said fees. This would greatly expand hiker choices.

I'd gladly pony up $10 (voluntarily) to help pay for a place to poop at S. Colony. Voluntarily. 'Shite rock' was disgusting.
I was happy with the old S. Colony situation, in which the road's rigor kept usage far lower than it was after the FS decided to "improve" the road and increase access, thus encouraging the (ab)use they now (apparently) wish to curtail, perhaps necessitating this new fee debacle. How much did they spend? Was it necessary, given that they simply closed the road they'd just improved?
Speaking of toilets, this entire situation looks to be a giant way to flush away our money. No, thanks.
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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby tmathews » Wed May 19, 2010 10:45 am

I just saw this article come through on an alert: http://climbing.about.com/b/2010/05/19/controversial-climbing-fees-proposed-for-popular-colorado-area.htm

He mentions 14ers.com, so I thought it might be of interest to some.

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby coloradokevin » Wed May 19, 2010 11:47 am

del_sur wrote:
lovskiing wrote:How about a compromise: volunteer one day to work on trail maintenance and get a free access for a year or pay the fee instead of volunteering. Many of the trail users already volunteer so it makes no sense to charge them a fee for use of trails they helped to build and maintain. This way, hikers would have a choice and Forest Service (and the trails) would benefit either way.


How about this compromise?
Concerned citizens can volunteer their own money to cover the fees of those who reject the notion that fees should be charged for use of public lands that offer no amenities paid for by said fees. This would greatly expand hiker choices.

I'd gladly pony up $10 (voluntarily) to help pay for a place to poop at S. Colony. Voluntarily. 'Shite rock' was disgusting.
I was happy with the old S. Colony situation, in which the road's rigor kept usage far lower than it was after the FS decided to "improve" the road and increase access, thus encouraging the (ab)use they now (apparently) wish to curtail, perhaps necessitating this new fee debacle. How much did they spend? Was it necessary, given that they simply closed the road they'd just improved?
Speaking of toilets, this entire situation looks to be a giant way to flush away our money. No, thanks.



Delsur, thank you for providing an example of the point I've been trying to get across in all of this madness:

The Forest Service "improved" that area, which in turn increased visitation, which in turn led to a cry for fees to manage visitation, which will eventually lead to more ammenities, and possibly more fees! Personally, I was hiking, backpacking, and climbing back before it became so "cool" to do so. I'm perfectly happy to struggle my way into the wilderness, and experience it without today's Disneyland-style development.

I'm sad to see that the USFS is discovering that they can do whatever they want, and charge whatever they want, just to bring in revenue from hikers. Again, I don't need (or necessarily want) their assistance!

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Re: Fees for South Colony Basin

Postby mtnjam » Wed May 19, 2010 2:21 pm

Reading the USFS "South Colony Recreation Fee Proposal", I saw that a privy is not even in the proposal, it's the WAG bag instead!

"WAG Bags ($1.65 / bag x 5000 bags (initial) x 10,000 bags (year #3) 8,000 to 16,500"

Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell the .....

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