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Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Dex » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:17 pm

chrismjx wrote:I guess there was no way to just make a loop around that power-trippin' pig? You should've made him explain to you exactly what law gave him the authority to close public access to a public area, if for no other reason than just to piss him off... Or asked for his name and badge number and called his department to force an explanation (I'm guessing they would've backed down and let you go on). There is no realistic way that you could have possibly interfered with what they were trying to accomplish, and no reason to expect that you intended to either. If he was a "good" cop, he would've taken the time to explain to you what was happening, find out what your plans were, etc., instead of just "NONE SHALL PASS!". Small-town hick cops man...


Right on man! Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, NSA and this!

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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Monster5 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:19 pm

It is common practice to close areas surrounding a SAR incident. The extent of the closure depends on nature of the rescue. It may hurt our little manly egos to be turned around as if we were children, but show some respect for the volunteers, assisted by local authorities, as they commence the rescue. One should not throw a little hissy fit, start pissing everybody off, and demand heads in the middle of a medical emergency.

The incident occurred on the road and likely around Jaws 1 or 2. That means SAR vehicles, medical/technical gear, and possibly larger machinery (vehicle extraction) will be traveling along the narrow, 4WD road. Having, y''know, not actually been up those peaks, some may not have a good understanding of the terrain. They do not want people getting in the way of the rescue or gawking at the scene. If they needed help for a litter carry, they would've asked for it. But they didn't. So they wanted other parties out of the way, both for their safety and yours.

Nor do they want people trying to bypass the scene in that location. It could lead to other dangers. Along the road, the hikers would be interfering with the rescue, haul systems, and vehicles. Obviously, somebody can't try to bypass below the road because that is where the injured parties are and rescuers would have to worry about knocking stuff down on you. They should not try to bypass above the road in that section as it presents a rockfall risk to the rescuers (narrow steep road section bordered by a loose, boulder-filled, moraine remnant). Now, is that an assumption that people might interfere or drop rocks, even if unintentional? Yes. And they are very often correct. And that is a risk the rescuers need not subject themselves to at all.

Why did they kick you off the road completely? Well, because us manly men don't like being told what to do. We tend to ignore directions and muck things up. Especially when the directions come from those meanie head cops who give people ridiculous tickets for driving like a teenage girl with a triple shot of testosterone injected directly into their cell phone screen appendages. Power-trippin' pigs make an excellent target to redirect personal flaws and responsibility. Or is that the non-critical-thinking sheeple talking?

If somebody tells us "road closed," many of us will ignore them or try to bypass the system (see above), which leads to dangerous circumstances for the rescuers (see above). But, of course, you wouldn't do that. You're competent, safe, and never take a mistaken step, unlike all of those other idiots out there.
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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby djkest » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:20 pm

I hope the recue/recovery efforts went well. That person(s) problems are likely far greater than the hikers would be. Most likely more important than aquiring a new checkmark.
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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby DanielL » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:42 pm

djkest wrote:That person(s) problems are likely far greater than the hikers would be. Most likely more important than aquiring a new checkmark.


+1. My hiking partner and I had a similar experience last year in March while driving up to Kite Lake - about a mile from the upper TH, we were pulled over and informed that there was a mining rescue in progress and that we had to turn around. So we went and climbed something else. We weren't all that happy about it, but seriously, this is Colorado, you usually don't have to drive too far to get to another mountain! :)

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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Fisching » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:57 pm

Monster5 wrote:If somebody tells us "road closed," many of us will ignore them or try to bypass the system (see above), which leads to dangerous circumstances for the rescuers (see above). But, of course, you wouldn't do that. You're competent, safe, and never take a mistaken step, unlike all of those other idiots out there.


Awesome post. Living in a major city in Brazil at the present moment and hearing people rant about the loss of individual freedom in a "Police State" through the enforcement powers of a rural county Search & Rescue Team is comical to say the least.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxDAJy6mJRpZbDYzVVg3RUpjbWM/edit
Last edited by Fisching on Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby cftbq » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:19 pm

Dave B wrote:"perfidious" ?!? LOL, really?


Yes--no humor intended. When you take a job whose purpose is to act as an institutional check on possible excesses of the executive and legislative branches of government, and then use it to declare, over and over again, that the convenience of the executive and legislative branches always trumps the rights of private individuals, I call that perfidy.
BTW, I do not make use of AM radio...
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and the power that animates the universe. That may not
match up with your anthropomorphic or teleological idea of
what "god" is, but it's good enough for me.

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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Aug_Dog » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:06 pm

Man, I love summer on this forum! It's awesome.
Go get it

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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Jim Davies » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Fisching wrote:hearing people rant about the loss of individual freedom in a "Police State" through the enforcement powers of a rural county Search & Rescue Team is comical to say the least.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Colorado Springs, where half the population is simultaneously distrustful of government and drawing a government paycheck and/or pension.
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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Bowman » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:23 pm

wildlobo71 wrote:I just love the flavor of the tone in this thread... the assumption that the lone hiker (you putting yourself in their place) is automatically the more all-knowing entity in the exchange and automatically in the right. They had a reason to "close" access and refuse you to go by. You could always call the local jurisdiction and ask just why you were turned away from access to the public lands... it's not the end of your freedoms, however. Go back tomorrow. When I went to the White House - the PEOPLE'S house - when GHWB was in office in 1990, there was no tour that day... life sucks like that sometimes - but it's not a freakin' conspiracy.


Monster5 wrote:It is common practice to close areas surrounding a SAR incident. The extent of the closure depends on nature of the rescue. It may hurt our little manly egos to be turned around as if we were children, but show some respect for the volunteers, assisted by local authorities, as they commence the rescue. One should not throw a little hissy fit, start pissing everybody off, and demand heads in the middle of a medical emergency.

The incident occurred on the road and likely around Jaws 1 or 2. That means SAR vehicles, medical/technical gear, and possibly larger machinery (vehicle extraction) will be traveling along the narrow, 4WD road. Having, y''know, not actually been up those peaks, some may not have a good understanding of the terrain. They do not want people getting in the way of the rescue or gawking at the scene. If they needed help for a litter carry, they would've asked for it. But they didn't. So they wanted other parties out of the way, both for their safety and yours.

Nor do they want people trying to bypass the scene in that location. It could lead to other dangers. Along the road, the hikers would be interfering with the rescue, haul systems, and vehicles. Obviously, somebody can't try to bypass below the road because that is where the injured parties are and rescuers would have to worry about knocking stuff down on you. They should not try to bypass above the road in that section as it presents a rockfall risk to the rescuers (narrow steep road section bordered by a loose, boulder-filled, moraine remnant). Now, is that an assumption that people might interfere or drop rocks, even if unintentional? Yes. And they are very often correct. And that is a risk the rescuers need not subject themselves to at all.

Why did they kick you off the road completely? Well, because us manly men don't like being told what to do. We tend to ignore directions and muck things up. Especially when the directions come from those meanie head cops who give people ridiculous tickets for driving like a teenage girl with a triple shot of testosterone injected directly into their cell phone screen appendages. Power-trippin' pigs make an excellent target to redirect personal flaws and responsibility. Or is that the non-critical-thinking sheeple talking?

If somebody tells us "road closed," many of us will ignore them or try to bypass the system (see above), which leads to dangerous circumstances for the rescuers (see above). But, of course, you wouldn't do that. You're competent, safe, and never take a mistaken step, unlike all of those other idiots out there.


I'm not sure whether these two responses were directed at me or at other responders in the thread. The "you" in the posts indicate they were directed at me. I should state that I politely complied with the officer's request to leave the area. I had never faced this situation before, so I was wondering whether this sort of thing was standard practice for SAR operations or whether the officer was perhaps being a bit overzealous (hence my question). I was (and still am) willing to give the officer the benefit of the doubt.

If you read my post again, I was not complaining nor was I making any kind of political statement. I was not redirecting responsibility (for what?) or claiming that I never make mistakes (I do!). So just relax.

Anyway, thanks for the replies.
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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby Guitarzan » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:31 pm

Viva La Resistance!!
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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby DaveSwink » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:35 pm

Bowman wrote:I'm not sure whether these two responses were directed at me or at other responders in the thread. The "you" in the posts indicate they were directed at me.


I don't think so. Your OP was pretty clear that you were cooperative and just curious. There were lots of subsequent posts that have problems with authority in general and black helicopters in particular.

Bowman wrote:If you read my post again, I was not complaining nor was I making any kind of political statement. I was not redirecting responsibility (for what?) or claiming that I never make mistakes (I do!). So just relax.


I hear ya, but it is too late. You are now branded the Glenn Beck of 14ers.com. 8-[

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Re: Turned away at TH (Is this standard?)

Postby dleebuddy » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:38 pm

I was reading this thread just waiting for it to "go postal" (or the like). The tones were getting more confrontational....and then Bowman, Monster5, and others interject thoughtful, introspective comments. Very disappointing. Kudos guys! :-D

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