Grays Lost Rat questions

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Mountain Ninja
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Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by Mountain Ninja »

Hey guys,

I'm TOTALLY interested in getting some snow climbing/hiking experience, and I think Lost Rat couloir would be a good route to take, 'cuz it doesn't exceed steep class 2. However, I've haven't done any snow routes before yet.

I have crampons, snowshoes, avy beacon, ice axe, gps, etc.
I also will only go if the weather looks like a decent day, 30% chance of snow or less, light wind, nothing harsh in the forecast.

My questions are:


1) Avy danger: Would it be too early if I were to shoot for this as early as next week (4/25)? If so, when is it more safe? How dangerous are couloirs like Lost Rat?

2) How would you come DOWN from this route if you're not a skier? (I know, I need to learn to ski...) I may or may not hit up Torreys too.

3) How early do I want to start? Is the snow better/easier to ascend earlier in the morning/day because it's more firm?

4) If I haven't done a snow couloir before, what other things should I consider for safety & success?


Thanks guys, I really appreciate the wisdom from you more experienced snow climbers :)
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by Bean »

1. It's hard to say. I personally am still cautious as it's been snowing a lot, the most recent snow I've evaluated was still very wintery, and there are reports of some funky layers in the snowpack from CAIC.
2. There is a standard hikable route that more or less avoids avalanche terrain, at least once you're past Kelso.
3. Early starts are mostly an issue on warmer, spring days. The snowpack has not yet transitioned at higher elevations, plus Lost Rat is pretty sheltered from the sun. That said, if I am heading up towards Grays anytime soon, I'll be leaving at an hour so early it would be deemed unreasonable by most. This time of year, you're likely to fine if you're off the steeper snow by noon.
4. Have a competent partner. Learn to ski. Take an avalanche safety class or two (I hear Friends of Berthoud Pass puts on a pretty decent one for free).
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by Papillon »

You can always descend the standard route on Grays. In fact, you don't even have to truly summit Grays because Lost Rat does not have a direct finish. Once you pop out, you'll still have about 600 feet of vert to go or you can bail to climber's right and pick up the trail down (it will be pretty obvious and blown). You'll probably be looking at a 4-5 mile approach (plus 2500+ vert) for this one unless the road is melted out, just something else to consider.

Cristo is a good one to start on. Minimal approach, you can descend the standard route on Quandary if you like, etc. Cooper (Dave the climber/author, not the dog) wrote in his book that he always warms up on The Cristo. The Cristo runs maybe mid 30 degrees at its steepest and that is in the center. You can hug either side if you like too. Views of Fletcher, Drift, and the hanging valley are pretty slick from the left side on a clear day, in my opinion.

Hit this site up for partners and be honest about your abilities and you'll be fine.
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by climbing_rob »

Mountain_Ninja wrote: My questions are:

1) Avy danger: Would it be too early if I were to shoot for this as early as next week (4/25)? If so, when is it more safe? How dangerous are couloirs like Lost Rat? I think it's too early, mid May safer, but I'm very conservative with Avy danger

2) How would you come DOWN from this route if you're not a skier? (I know, I need to learn to ski...) I may or may not hit up Torreys too. Std. route on Grays, if you're not skiing

3) How early do I want to start? Is the snow better/easier to ascend earlier in the morning/day because it's more firm? We start these ~3-4 am, hitting the actual couloir at 1st light, and YES definitely.

4) If I haven't done a snow couloir before, what other things should I consider for safety & success? Make sure you're competant in crampons and w/ self arrest w/ ice axe


Thanks guys, I really appreciate the wisdom from you more experienced snow climbers :)
I'll give this a shot, as I've climbed Lost Rat yearly for the past few years; this is a "staple" for our annual CMC Rainier climb training. See my comments above, and:

1st, Lost Rat is a fine couloir, better than Dead Dog IMHO, because its essentially the same angle (35-ish degrees), yet never (so far) crowded. Both get a tad steeper near the very top, maybe 45 degrees for a very short section. In the case of Lost Rat, you actually have two options once 1/2 way up; the left fork seems slightly more laid back. I have led beginners up this couloir a few times, and no one wigged out.

Avy: Too early to safely do IMHO, I'd wait a couple weeks. I think we have done this on around mid-may, and will again this year. We always start very early, I believe leaving the upper t/h at 3am, I think topping out by 7am. We always go ahead and climb something then, either Edwards (left) or Grays (right), then descend the std. Gray's route, and always with a nice glissade in the chute between Gray's and Torrey's. Makes for a great day, back at the t/h by 10-11am, drinking/eating in Idaho springs by noon.
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by tmathews »

Hey, Brad,

I don't have as much experience as the others who have answered, but I'll offer you some thoughts.

I'll echo what others have said about timing. The next week or so probably isn't the safest in that part of the state because of the amount of snow it has been receiving. Give the new snow time to consolidate and bond with the lower bed surfaces. Depending how warm it gets -- probably a week or two.

As far as how to get down -- you can either take the Grays standard route or glissade down from the Grays/Torreys saddle. There usually is a safe run-out, so a lot of people do it. When you're down at the bottom (if you glissade), try to stay as far away from Torreys as you can, though, as the walk out crosses a few slide paths.

You'll want to start as early as possible to get to the bottom of the couloir before the sun hits it. I believe Lost Rat is east-facing, so it will start to soften quickly once the sun hits it.

Other things? Definitely go with someone who has couloir experience. You have the equipment; like Rob says -- just make sure you know how to use them. If you're going with someone else, practice putting on your crampons beforehand. Sometimes they can be confusing and a partner might get frustrated if you take too long. If you haven't used them before, go out to St. Mary's Glacier and walk up and down the snow with them on so you can get used to how they feel on your feet. Know the basics of self-arrest. A lot of people go out to SMG for practice, so maybe you can watch how they do it. Better yet -- offer to take someone with good experience out for a beer or something and have him/her show you how for a few hours. Watch the forecast for the area for several days before you go. Don't pay attention to only the numbers; there are a lot of factors and none of the forecast pages on 14ers.com is at the summit elevation (some come close, but none are for 14,000 feet or above). Consider that if a forecast is for, say, 12,340 feet, and it's calling for 10-15 MPH winds with gusts to 25 -- they might be 15-20 MPH stronger at the summit. Pay attention to which direction the winds are blowing from in the forecast. Most of the winds in Colorado blow from the west, but there are occasions where it will blow from other directions. If a wind is blowing from the northwest, the east and southeast aspects may have a lot of soft, wind-deposited snow to contend with that can also present a danger. Generally western aspects are the safer approaches and eastern aspects will have cornices (if any). The forecast summit temperature is also going to be lower. Avoid bulletproof snow on steep slopes. While it may be fun to walk on with crampons, you can't really kick steps into it and self-arrest is a lot more difficult. Pay attention to what's above and below you. If you slip and fall, are you going to hit that outcropping you just passed? Look for evidence of past slides and choose a route that keeps you out of that path the longest. And, like Mike says, take avalanche awareness courses.

At any rate, these are just a few pointers from someone who is still learning. There is a lot more for me to learn still, but I've picked up on a lot these past couple of years (this year, especially). I would not feel comfortable taking someone out at this point, but perhaps in another year or two I can start to pay-it-forward -- an homage to those who have helped me get this far.
Mountain_Ninja wrote:I have crampons, snowshoes, avy beacon, ice axe, gps, etc.
I also will only go if the weather looks like a decent day, 30% chance of snow or less, light wind, nothing harsh in the forecast.

My questions are:

1) Avy danger: Would it be too early if I were to shoot for this as early as next week (4/25)? If so, when is it more safe? How dangerous are couloirs like Lost Rat?

2) How would you come DOWN from this route if you're not a skier? (I know, I need to learn to ski...) I may or may not hit up Torreys too.

3) How early do I want to start? Is the snow better/easier to ascend earlier in the morning/day because it's more firm?

4) If I haven't done a snow couloir before, what other things should I consider for safety & success?
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by Mountain Ninja »

Thank you guys for the wisdom! I am definitely taking this stuff into account and I'll keep my eye out for partners with experience in couloirs to head up Lost Rat / Cristo / Dead Dog with. :)
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by timd »

When were you thinking of going, Cristo sounds good as long as the avy danger is low.
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by Mountain Ninja »

timd wrote:When were you thinking of going, Cristo sounds good as long as the avy danger is low.
Based on what experienced people are saying here, I'm aiming to start "mid-May". We'll keep an eye on conditions and weather until then, but really I'm looking to go as soon as it's possible with lower avy conditions like you said :)

And I'm open to any of these: Cristo (Quandary), Lost Rat (Grays), Dead Dog (Torreys), Missouri's North Face Couloir(s), Humboldt's Southeast Flank Gully.
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by tmathews »

Mountain_Ninja wrote:And I'm open to any of these: Cristo (Quandary), Lost Rat (Grays), Dead Dog (Torreys), Missouri's North Face Couloir(s), Humboldt's Southeast Flank Gully.
There are probably going to be a lot of people climbing Missouri's North Face Couloirs during the Spring Gathering on 5/7-5/8 if you're able to make it out to join us that weekend.
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by SurfNTurf »

tmathews wrote:
There are probably going to be a lot of people climbing Missouri's North Face Couloirs during the Spring Gathering on 5/7-5/8 if you're able to make it out to join us that weekend.
Hopeful Couloir on Mt. Hope, as well. Those seem to be the two most popular route choices for the gathering.
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Re: Grays Lost Rat questions

Post by EZSide »

We were out last week Sunday through Friday. Was hoping for a (non ski) shot at La Plata late week, but we weren't ready for the commitment less than ideal weather would require. Probably a good thing that the decision was relatively easy. Perhaps some other trip in the future those conditions won't mean another day at A-Basin or Loveland... but last week it did (hey, with a 2fer cupon 3 skiied for less than one adult in WI!). Looking for the positives - we - strangers to deep snow that we are - got to get our boots white ..... and the view opened Thursday for a teaser. Here is Grays / Torreys from NW (Lift #9 - The Ridge @ Loveland)
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