Planning and advice; first trip for WI'er

[RobertKay]

Has anyone done research on the body's ability to adapt more quickly with experience? Anecdotally, I feel like I do better at elevation (say 18,000' and higher) than I did a few years ago. I can't decide if it is simply that I know what will happen and therefore don't stress over it or if my body has learned how to adapt better and faster. In other words is it a little like catching a disease and recovering and then not getting ill the next time you are exposed to it?

[mtnjim]

The problem I find with the marathoner vs. couch potato acclimatization discussion always comes back to one thing. Who will perform better at altitude? My money's on the marathoner.

I believe that in mountaineering, the fitter you, are the better off you are. One always hears about the marathoner who goes up too fast. I'm sure it happens but my personal experience and personal observations tell me without exception that the fitter I am or you are, the better we'll do on a high altitude climb. I think that's what counts, not who has the better blood test scores in the lab. I'm guessing this marathoner hasn't quite got pacing down yet and just went out too fast.

RobertKay, it seems to me that I acclimatized better with more high altitude trips under my belt. I know that everyone says that past experience is no predictor of future performance but, again, that hasn't been my experience. It's certainly no guarantee that you'll do well on the next trip, but it at least tells you that you have the capability.

Then maybe it's not better acclimatization but just that I've gotten used to feeling like crap and heading up the hill anyway.

JimS

[mtnjim]

Also, Matt Carpenter's advice for lowlanders coming in for the Pikes Peak Marathon is to get here 2 or 3 weeks early or as close to the race start as possible. These folks aren't concerned with getting too high too fast, but with getting high too slow.

[climbing_rob]

Has anyone done research on the body's ability to adapt more quickly with experience? Anecdotally, I feel like I do better at elevation (say 18,000' and higher) than I did a few years ago. I can't decide if it is simply that I know what will happen and therefore don't stress over it or if my body has learned how to adapt better and faster. In other words is it a little like catching a disease and recovering and then not getting ill the next time you are exposed to it?

Not sure how old you are, but age does help with acclimation. Your brain literally shrinks. All us old farts know this, at least when we can remember. When it swells at altitude (what causes HACE), there is less pressure from your skull. So keep climbing! I am. I do better now pushing 60 than I did at 40, easily. Except for the knee thing...

Sure, fitter folks do better at altitude, because, they are, er, fitter. Less pain and other body stresses to deal with when climbing. But sorry, no better altitude acclimatization with respect to body chemistry, which causes altitude ills. I see folks all the time up high saying they feel like they have altitude sickness, AMS, whatever because they feel so bad. Well they feel bad simply because they are breathing less oxygen, duh. This makes you feel bad, sluggish, lousy, whatever. It ain't "altitude sickness", probably. If you are fitter, you can probably deal with this feeling much better.

"altitude sickness" is a body chemistry, brain swelling, lungs filling with fluid thing.

And yeah, that's what I was trying to say from Matt's site. Either come to CO well before climbing and acclimate right, or just come and climb. Who wants to sit around in Denver? Just climb.

[GeezerClimber]

I think you guys may have scared off the OP with all the agonizing over altitude and back and forth opinions.

Let's face it. For the reasonably fit, climbing one of the easier 14ers is no big deal except for the unfortunate few that really are susceptible to true altitude sickness. But they are few and far between.

I have "guided" quite a few sea level dwelling visitors over the years, including my 67 year old brother on Harvard last year. My goal is not just to get them to summit, but to still feel good when they get there. Despite varying ages and fitness levels, everyone has made it. Here's how I do it:

The key thing is pace. I always let them go first. If I go first, it will be too fast even when I think I'm going slow. While behind, I monitor their breathing. I don't want them to get really winded. It is particularly beneficial to keep a leisurely pace while still below 12,000 feet. Save the energy for up high. It's not a sprint.

We stop frequently, and I ask how they are doing. Nausea? Headaches? Usually the only complaint is difficulty catching breath. Then I know its time to slow down. Often they feel they are too slow. They apologize for "holding me up." I tell them everyone is slower up here and I'm enjoying the scenery and easy walk (true.) It's just a matter of putting one foot in front of the other. It's slow, but you will get there.

Restricting alcohol the night before is a good idea (them, not me!) I encourage them to drink water while climbing but only enough that they have to pee maybe once during the ascent. They don't need water sloshing around their stomachs. I also encourage regular snacking, preferably fruits, proteins and nuts. Not too much sugar.

Lastly, I tell them that while it will require exertion, it should be, above all, fun. Enjoy the climb itself, not just the summit.

Dave

[d_baker]

But Dex, Deuces Wild does climb more than just getting off the couch like the man in your photo probably does once in a while. In fact, I saw Deuce's name on a summit register a week ago. Might have been an imposter though, I'm not sure. I've yet to see the name Dex in any register.

[JROSKA]

I think you guys may have scared off the OP with all the agonizing over altitude and back and forth opinions.

I kind of wondered the same thing. He did state that he "stumbled across this board", it says he's made 2 posts, so this can be considered a "14er hazing" of sorts. That is, learning how so many folks in this forum want to turn every little thing into an argument. It seems like even the most simple posts result in a lot of meaningless noise. I've noticed that every May, when I make a "Beta" request for summer conditions, while most of the responses are extremely helpful and a direct response to the question, there's ALWAYS at least one "troll" response from somebody who wants to diminish and minimize those who only hike / climb during the summer months. I just ignore that nonsense. Hopefully the OP does the same thing with this thread. That is, focus on those responses that made some type of attempt to answer the questions posed, and tune out the rest.

[d_baker]

Will the real Deuce please stand up? (IF it's the guy in the photo, he might appreciate some help.)
Dex, you're no Deuce.

[highpilgrim]

Dex, you're no Deuce.

Correct.

Deuce asked me via sat phone to share this picture of Dex in action. Here you go: Dex, Master of the Sawatch. One more little shove and you're home, dexie.

dex at work.jpg (251.19 KiB) Viewed 2474 times

[rafa012556]

ur fine with ur training... I was a former distance runner myself when I moved out to Co... going up slow is a good suggestion as is staying well hydrated starting the night/day before... don't be ashamed if you need to take a short break as ur climbing... I found that if the first 1/2 was steep of my hike, I had to take a deep breath then I was fine... enjoy and smell the winds

[Shawnee Bob]

Plenty of good advice here. My add: Eat clean in the days before. This is totally anecdotal, but last summer my experiences going up Sneffels and later Missouri were totally different. Cruised up Sneffels pretty well (though it is a short route); got my butt kicked by Missouri, and the two days before that one, I'd eaten a little too much good "home cooking" and then some poor food choices on the road. Really felt labored going up Mizzou the next morning.

High calorie but clean options are the best, if you can.