Hey there. We are headed to the UK for New Years to see some family and do some traveling. I hear Scotland is the epicenter for ice and mixed in Europe during the winter. Does anyone have any experience there? We want to limit the climbing to 2-3 days and likely keep it to single pitch moderate. Ben Nevis looks awesome as well and we are interested in climbing it, but not up any of the awesome looking technical routes. Anyone done it in January?
What are some good spots for ice? How easy is it to rent gear?
So far we have only booked a room for NYE and NYD in Edinburgh, so our plans are wide open.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Climbing in Scotland
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Climbing in Scotland
Last edited by I Man on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
You can touch the void, just don't fall into it.
I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.
I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.
Re: Climbing in Scotland
Matt,
This site may be of use to you: http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It may focus on what they call "walks," but I think you can find some useful information.
Good luck!
This site may be of use to you: http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It may focus on what they call "walks," but I think you can find some useful information.
Good luck!
"This route is awesome; you can bring all your favorite holds home with you!" - Cedar Wright
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." - Oscar Wilde
"I just wanna live the life I please; I don't want no enemies; I don't want nothing if I have to fake it
Never take nothing don't belong to me; everything's paid for; nothing's free; If I give my heart will you promise not to break it?" - Lucinda Williams
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." - Oscar Wilde
"I just wanna live the life I please; I don't want no enemies; I don't want nothing if I have to fake it
Never take nothing don't belong to me; everything's paid for; nothing's free; If I give my heart will you promise not to break it?" - Lucinda Williams
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DavidK
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Re: Climbing in Scotland
Another great site is http://www.scottishhills.com/html/index.php. I've been hiking in Scotland a few times but never in January or for ice climbing. This scottishhills site regularly gets winter trip reports so you may find it useful. The Carn Mor Dearg arête route is a good one up Ben Nevis. Lots of good hills there. Good luck and enjoy it, it's a great place.
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Doug Shaw
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Re: Climbing in Scotland
Fort William is the gateway to many outdoor activities for the Scottish highlands, and it is right at the base of Ben Nevis.
I doubt you'll have any trouble finding a place to rent gear give the popularity of climbing in the area. There are numerous guide services in the area as well, which I mention primarily because at a minimum guides often supply their less experienced clients with rental equipment.
It's far enough away from Edinburgh, and popular enough, that you definitely shouldn't do what I did and show up late and hunt for accommodation. Have a plan and some reservations.
On your way to Fort William you'll pass by signs for the National Ice Climbing Centre in Kinlochleven... They would probably also be a decent resource to contact as I bet they have some knowledge about those sorts of things...
Despite its "low" elevation and mild "walk-up" nature by the standard route, Ben Nevis in winter is supposed to be a cracking day out in full conditions. Careful orienteering is needed in winter to avoid dropping off the north face in whiteout conditions.
I was looking at the aforementioned Carn Mor Dearg route, though I was there in fall. I would expect it would be more challenging in winter - duh.
I am sure you're aware, but things tend toward the coldish and dampish in Scotland. Show up with just your Colorado-worthy soft shell and you may have a pretty bad experience.
You might also PM pvnisher if he doesn't see this ... I believe he climbed up there a few times and may be one of the few people on this site that have some direct first-hand information.
I doubt you'll have any trouble finding a place to rent gear give the popularity of climbing in the area. There are numerous guide services in the area as well, which I mention primarily because at a minimum guides often supply their less experienced clients with rental equipment.
It's far enough away from Edinburgh, and popular enough, that you definitely shouldn't do what I did and show up late and hunt for accommodation. Have a plan and some reservations.
On your way to Fort William you'll pass by signs for the National Ice Climbing Centre in Kinlochleven... They would probably also be a decent resource to contact as I bet they have some knowledge about those sorts of things...
Despite its "low" elevation and mild "walk-up" nature by the standard route, Ben Nevis in winter is supposed to be a cracking day out in full conditions. Careful orienteering is needed in winter to avoid dropping off the north face in whiteout conditions.
I was looking at the aforementioned Carn Mor Dearg route, though I was there in fall. I would expect it would be more challenging in winter - duh.
I am sure you're aware, but things tend toward the coldish and dampish in Scotland. Show up with just your Colorado-worthy soft shell and you may have a pretty bad experience.
You might also PM pvnisher if he doesn't see this ... I believe he climbed up there a few times and may be one of the few people on this site that have some direct first-hand information.
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pvnisher
- Posts: 1729
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- Trip Reports (8)
Re: Climbing in Scotland
Ah, Scotland in January.
It's cold, dark, and wet. The sun rises around 0900 and sets at 1545 (3:45pm). The days are pretty stinking short. Bring two torches. I asked some fellas about "softshell". They said they'd never heard of it, but doubted it'd be enough. They were right.
As far as hiring kit, it's pretty easy if you're in the right spot. If you go to Aviemore in the Cairngorms then you won't have any problem. Glenmore Lodge or similar will sort you out.
I preferred Balachulish (pronounced balak-HU-lish) to Fort William, but they are in the same area. I climbed on the indoor ice in Kinlochleven (kin-lock-LEEven), and it was pretty cool, although I did it in the summer. I don't know I'd recommend it in the winter unless the weather is bad. Then you can still cet some climbing in, and it's a unique place. It is up there with my "skiing in Dubai" for crazy places I've been indoors on frozen water. It's built right at a hydroelectric dam and gets free power for the chillers, that's why the location is where it is. Pretty interesting place.
Speaking of bad weather, you're likely to see some pretty dismal weather. Like, people routinely drive with chainsaws in their cars to clear fallen trees kind of weather. I tried to go up right around New Years a few years back and the trains were shut down.
Ben Nevis is like 1000' of trail and 3000' of stairs on the tourist route. The summit is a huge plateau, and if you're not careful you'll go tumbling off. The weather is no joke. I did Scafell Pike in the winter and it's pretty close to my scariest could-have-died trip since the weather turned so wet, white-out, windy so fast. The weather wasn't as bad as my 2010 June Rainier trip, but it was a close second. Ben Nevis is pretty nice, but unless you've got a great, solid forecast I'd leave it off the list.
Are you hiring a guide or doing it yourselves?
I personally preferred the Lake District for winter climbing over Scotland simply because 1) it was closer to where I lived and 2)it was easier to get to from the roads. The driving and trains up in Scotland can be pretty committing. It's a long ways. You think that driving 50 miles isn't very far when the speed limit is 60, but it'll probably take you 3 hours to go 50 miles once you leave the M roads.
Travel tip: M roads are highways. "A" roads with one number (like A5) are decent. A roads with 2 numbers aren't terrible. They deteriorate with each additional number. "B" roads should be avoided at all costs. Drive further on the A roads to avoid B roads. You'll be going 15mph on unmarked, unmaintained twisty, single-lane roads with tractors or sheep coming at you around blind corners blocked by 10' stone walls.
The ice tended to be kinda soft and sometimes a bit scary. It doesn't ever get really cold since the ocean is so close, so it doesn't freeze super solid. Bring rock gear, lots of hexes. And turf hooks. I never did a full pitch of ice, but lots of mixed, and sometimes that means lots of frozen turf, which was probably the best tool placement medium I've ever used!
For the best variety of routes, I'd probably go to Aviemore, hire some kit, and get over to Coire an t-Sneachda. It's near a "ski hill" and the roads aren't terrible. There are many routes you can do there. Start easy, and don't believe the "Grade Conversion Chart" you'll see online which says Scottish Winter routes are typically one generous numeral higher than a comparative M or W grade. That's bollocks. At least at the grades I could do. Maybe higher up that's true.
You might want to consider hiring a guide if you're only there for a few days. Otherwise, you'll spend tons of time researching areas, and routes, and kit, and everything else, only to be derailed by weather or something and then have no idea what to do. When you've got limited time, I'd rather spend a bit more and get a quality experience than blow all my time sitting in the room/hostel trying to find a wifi signal and researching routes on my phone...
It's cold, dark, and wet. The sun rises around 0900 and sets at 1545 (3:45pm). The days are pretty stinking short. Bring two torches. I asked some fellas about "softshell". They said they'd never heard of it, but doubted it'd be enough. They were right.
As far as hiring kit, it's pretty easy if you're in the right spot. If you go to Aviemore in the Cairngorms then you won't have any problem. Glenmore Lodge or similar will sort you out.
I preferred Balachulish (pronounced balak-HU-lish) to Fort William, but they are in the same area. I climbed on the indoor ice in Kinlochleven (kin-lock-LEEven), and it was pretty cool, although I did it in the summer. I don't know I'd recommend it in the winter unless the weather is bad. Then you can still cet some climbing in, and it's a unique place. It is up there with my "skiing in Dubai" for crazy places I've been indoors on frozen water. It's built right at a hydroelectric dam and gets free power for the chillers, that's why the location is where it is. Pretty interesting place.
Speaking of bad weather, you're likely to see some pretty dismal weather. Like, people routinely drive with chainsaws in their cars to clear fallen trees kind of weather. I tried to go up right around New Years a few years back and the trains were shut down.
Ben Nevis is like 1000' of trail and 3000' of stairs on the tourist route. The summit is a huge plateau, and if you're not careful you'll go tumbling off. The weather is no joke. I did Scafell Pike in the winter and it's pretty close to my scariest could-have-died trip since the weather turned so wet, white-out, windy so fast. The weather wasn't as bad as my 2010 June Rainier trip, but it was a close second. Ben Nevis is pretty nice, but unless you've got a great, solid forecast I'd leave it off the list.
Are you hiring a guide or doing it yourselves?
I personally preferred the Lake District for winter climbing over Scotland simply because 1) it was closer to where I lived and 2)it was easier to get to from the roads. The driving and trains up in Scotland can be pretty committing. It's a long ways. You think that driving 50 miles isn't very far when the speed limit is 60, but it'll probably take you 3 hours to go 50 miles once you leave the M roads.
Travel tip: M roads are highways. "A" roads with one number (like A5) are decent. A roads with 2 numbers aren't terrible. They deteriorate with each additional number. "B" roads should be avoided at all costs. Drive further on the A roads to avoid B roads. You'll be going 15mph on unmarked, unmaintained twisty, single-lane roads with tractors or sheep coming at you around blind corners blocked by 10' stone walls.
The ice tended to be kinda soft and sometimes a bit scary. It doesn't ever get really cold since the ocean is so close, so it doesn't freeze super solid. Bring rock gear, lots of hexes. And turf hooks. I never did a full pitch of ice, but lots of mixed, and sometimes that means lots of frozen turf, which was probably the best tool placement medium I've ever used!
For the best variety of routes, I'd probably go to Aviemore, hire some kit, and get over to Coire an t-Sneachda. It's near a "ski hill" and the roads aren't terrible. There are many routes you can do there. Start easy, and don't believe the "Grade Conversion Chart" you'll see online which says Scottish Winter routes are typically one generous numeral higher than a comparative M or W grade. That's bollocks. At least at the grades I could do. Maybe higher up that's true.
You might want to consider hiring a guide if you're only there for a few days. Otherwise, you'll spend tons of time researching areas, and routes, and kit, and everything else, only to be derailed by weather or something and then have no idea what to do. When you've got limited time, I'd rather spend a bit more and get a quality experience than blow all my time sitting in the room/hostel trying to find a wifi signal and researching routes on my phone...
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piper14er
- Posts: 147
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Re: Climbing in Scotland
http://14ers.com/php14ers/tripreport.ph ... m=tripmine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I posted a bit of a report on the route mentioned by Doug Shaw. Class 3. No ice climbing though.
I posted a bit of a report on the route mentioned by Doug Shaw. Class 3. No ice climbing though.
Re: Climbing in Scotland
THANK YOU for all of the replies. Lots of information to sift through. Seems like true ice sin't going to be as prevalent as I had originally expected, and this isn't a climbing trip. Perhaps I will break the cardinal rule of mountaineering and hire a guide for a day or 2 just to save time...we will see.
I am sure we will have more questions after doing some more research. Thanks again everyone, those responses were great
I am sure we will have more questions after doing some more research. Thanks again everyone, those responses were great
You can touch the void, just don't fall into it.
I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.
I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.
Re: Climbing in Scotland
Hello again. The trip is getting closer and it is time to make plans. We will be free from January 2nd to January 8th, departing and returning to Edinburgh.
Ben Nevis looks interesting to us and I think we will want to try and hike it. That being said, we also want to ice climb if possible. As stated above, we have both agreed that this would be a good time to break the cardinal rule of climbing, and use a guide, so that we can find the ice.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a guiding service that I can contact?
We also want to drink a lot of Scotch and stay in Castles - assuming that all of this can line up.
Though, I keep trying to tell her I have dinner plans with Nessie that cannot be missed, but for some reason she does not take me seriously...
EDIT: Bill, where is the Loch Ness Monster Emoticon?
Ben Nevis looks interesting to us and I think we will want to try and hike it. That being said, we also want to ice climb if possible. As stated above, we have both agreed that this would be a good time to break the cardinal rule of climbing, and use a guide, so that we can find the ice.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a guiding service that I can contact?
We also want to drink a lot of Scotch and stay in Castles - assuming that all of this can line up.
Though, I keep trying to tell her I have dinner plans with Nessie that cannot be missed, but for some reason she does not take me seriously...
EDIT: Bill, where is the Loch Ness Monster Emoticon?
You can touch the void, just don't fall into it.
I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.
I fly a starship across the universe divide....and when I reach the other side...I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a Mountain Man again.
Re: Climbing in Scotland
Regarding the castle:I Man wrote:We also want to drink a lot of Scotch and stay in Castles - assuming that all of this can line up.
My wife and I honeymooned in England and Scotland a couple of years ago (in September). I remembered, and dug up, the following trip report and got us a night or two in the Duchray Castle that is linked in it. We felt that the claim to being a castle was a bit of a stretch and a marketing ploy, but it was still a cool place to stay.
http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/triprepor ... ki=Include" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I had also hoped to hike Ben Nevis while there, but the weather was not looking good, and we weren't keen on being miserable on our honeymoon so we did a shorter hike closer to the castle.
We *really* enjoyed Edinburgh and its castle. Have fun!
"This route is awesome; you can bring all your favorite holds home with you!" - Cedar Wright
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." - Oscar Wilde
"I just wanna live the life I please; I don't want no enemies; I don't want nothing if I have to fake it
Never take nothing don't belong to me; everything's paid for; nothing's free; If I give my heart will you promise not to break it?" - Lucinda Williams
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." - Oscar Wilde
"I just wanna live the life I please; I don't want no enemies; I don't want nothing if I have to fake it
Never take nothing don't belong to me; everything's paid for; nothing's free; If I give my heart will you promise not to break it?" - Lucinda Williams
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pvnisher
- Posts: 1729
- Joined: 9/28/2006
- Trip Reports (8)
Re: Climbing in Scotland
ben nevis, point five gully.
I hired Smiler Cuthbertson for my first Scottish winter venture. he was ok, not stellar but experienced, local, and safe.
I hired Smiler Cuthbertson for my first Scottish winter venture. he was ok, not stellar but experienced, local, and safe.
