Private Guide on Rainier?

[djkest]

a)I am looking for an alternative option. Somewhere between "do it yourself" and "fully guided $1300pp trip". I think we need a guide, someone with experience. Do people ever hire a private guide for Rainier? You know, someone with experience and training, that charges a reasonable fee that we could split amongst the climbers. Someone who could lead the way up DC and give us some training. Is this a dumb idea, or does it make sense? I have a few other questions as well.

b) We will most likely be renting boots, I can't afford the $400+ boots that I'd like to use on Rainier. Are there places that rent boots and crampons only without a guided trip?- if so where do you recommend?

c) Optimum group size- if you had a guide what is the optimum group size for a rope team? I am thinking 4-6 total people but I am not sure

d) Would 2 days to climb DC be a reasonable effort for people in good shape with 14er experience and acclimitization- first time on Rainier?

Thanks in advance.

[Scott P]

Do people ever hire a private guide for Rainier? You know, someone with experience and training, that charges a reasonable fee that we could split amongst the climbers.

Not legally. The only groups that can legally guide on Rainier are the authorized guiding services that you are referring to (costing ~$1300). Illegal guides can get in a lot of trouble.

It's probably not a good idea to do it covertly either. What if one of them takes your money, but doesn't provide the services? Would you call the police and say that you tried to illigally hire an illegal guide and he ripped you off?

If you don't want to go with an authorized guide, perhaps the best option (other than learning all the skills needed yourself) is to go with the CMC or someone similar. They have classes which often do a climb of Rainier as their final part of the class. They are a real bargain too.

[SeracZack]

I can't comment on all your questions, but we rented a tent (that we never used, doh!) and boots and crampons for my wife from Whittaker Mountaineering (http://www.whittakermountaineering.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), and we felt two days was a very comfortable pace. Many of the guided groups on the DC route will do three days, but one of those is a skills day where they brush up on self arrest, etc.

We went last year, unguided, with 3 of us. If you have any other questions I could help with, send me a PM.

Zack

[SurfNTurf]

a)I am looking for an alternative option. Somewhere between "do it yourself" and "fully guided $1300pp trip". I think we need a guide, someone with experience. Do people ever hire a private guide for Rainier? You know, someone with experience and training, that charges a reasonable fee that we could split amongst the climbers. Someone who could lead the way up DC and give us some training. Is this a dumb idea, or does it make sense? I have a few other questions as well.

b) We will most likely be renting boots, I can't afford the $400+ boots that I'd like to use on Rainier. Are there places that rent boots and crampons only without a guided trip?- if so where do you recommend?

c) Optimum group size- if you had a guide what is the optimum group size for a rope team? I am thinking 4-6 total people but I am not sure

d) Would 2 days to climb DC be a reasonable effort for people in good shape with 14er experience and acclimitization- first time on Rainier?

Thanks in advance.

The guide services on Rainier -- Rainier Mountaineering Inc. (RMI), Alpine Ascents International (AAI) and International Mountain Guides (IMG) -- operate as concessionaires within a national park. As far as I know, those are the only three companies from which you can legally hire a guide. To answer your specific questions...

b) The Whittaker Mountaineering store in Ashford literally rents everything. You could probably check out socks, lip balm and long underwear if you wanted.

c) The optimum size for a rope team is three people. Four is still OK. Anything larger gets problematic, and traveling as a two-man rope makes crevasse rescue a little "interesting."

d) Two days is the norm. One day up to Muir, one day to summit and return to Paradise. I've always built in an extra day for weather or rest if needed. It's nice to have the flexibility.

The guide services on Rainier do offer skills clinics that don't include summit climbs. A brief glance at RMI's website shows a one-day Basic Mountaineering Seminar and a one-day Crevasse Rescue Seminar for $200 each. I'd assume the former is extremely basic -- snow walking techniques, how to hold an ice ax, sliding around practicing self-arrest, etc. Easy enough to learn in Colorado on your own. As for crevasse rescue, you could just fly out a day before your climb and take that Crevasse Rescue Seminar through RMI. It's worth noting that you'd have to try pretty hard to fall into a hole on the DC, at least in June and early July when I've been. The guides keep that route dialed. It's a trench-highway with wands every 50 feet.

I would strongly suggest picking up a copy of Glacier Mountaineering: An Illustrated Guide to Glacier Travel. It's an entertaining read with tons of information. With a little help from mentors and lots of (ongoing) hands-on practice, I taught myself using this book.

Good luck! Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

[MonGoose]

We just got back from Rainier so I'll offer a few thoughts.

a)I am looking for an alternative option. Somewhere between "do it yourself" and "fully guided $1300pp trip". I think we need a guide, someone with experience. Do people ever hire a private guide for Rainier? You know, someone with experience and training, that charges a reasonable fee that we could split amongst the climbers. Someone who could lead the way up DC and give us some training. Is this a dumb idea, or does it make sense? I have a few other questions as well.

The DC route is continually maintained and clearly marked by the guide services, which essentially eliminates the challenge of route finding. The primary concern is crevasse rescue and rope travel. There are a couple of one day courses offered locally here in CO that teach these skills but you will need to spend a few weekends practicing with your team before the trip.

b) We will most likely be renting boots, I can't afford the $400+ boots that I'd like to use on Rainier. Are there places that rent boots and crampons only without a guided trip?- if so where do you recommend?

I know that Whittaker Mountaineering rents a few different types of boots. Anything that will work in Colorado in the winter with crampons should work on Rainier in the summer.

c) Optimum group size- if you had a guide what is the optimum group size for a rope team? I am thinking 4-6 total people but I am not sure

I think the optimum group size is 4. Four members on a rope team is small enough to be quick but has the flexibility of climbing with 3 if one member decides to stay behind at Camp Muir on summit day.

d) Would 2 days to climb DC be a reasonable effort for people in good shape with 14er experience and acclimitization- first time on Rainier?

I'd plan for 3 days to give yourself some flexibility for weather and allow an extra rest day at Camp Muir if needed.

[djkest]

So basically your options are:
1) Pay for a professional guiding service
2) DIY

[Steve Climber]

Yes. Those are your BEST options.

A) You could probably 'have a friend take you up' aka pay a private someone experienced who is willing to guide you up, but they won't be able to offer you the service or standards that the approved guiding companies can. As Nick touched on, crevasse rescue is really the main concern on this route, so regardless of who is guiding you, you need to know some glacier basics. The plus side is once you know those basics, you are more-or-less prepared for your own unguided trip. The route is definitely straight-forward and easy to follow...we managed our way down with 50-60' visibility by following the trench and a LOT of wands.

B) Whittaker's rental list is definitely impressive. They've got you covered for just about anything you'll need. Also the shop is cool and worth a stop regardless.

C) A 3-body rope team is optimal, but 4 is doable if your team practices at moving efficiently. 2 is sketchy but doable, any more than 4 and I'd break into multiple teams.

D) 3 days to permit for weather is a great idea. If you knock it out in 2, you get a day to see the sights in town. Just make sure to schedule your rental car return for as late as possible and buy your Space Needle tix early!!!

[GregMiller]

a) I'd not recommend this (for reasons stated above), as I wouldn't want to be on the NPS' s**t list (the backcountry rangers up there seemed like some pretty smart guys, and it's not hard to figure out when that's going on). However, it wouldn't surprise me if you could convince someone on here who's been there before to go back and lead the rope team.

b) As said, Whittaker has EVERYTHING. You might want to try renting the same boot local (assuming that's an option) and finding a size that works for you, last thing I'd want to do is figure out you have the wrong size at Camp Muir.

c) I liked 3, we were significantly faster than the larger teams. 4 would provide you with some some insurance against someone dropping. I wouldn't really want to be on a larger team than that, they seemed rather unwieldly on the mountain.

d) Yes, but we liked 3 days, it provided options and let us be lazy after descending to Muir. Doing it again, I'd hike up to Muir on day 1, move camp to Ingraham Flats on day 2, summit that night and hike out. That'll allow you to easily be ahead of most of the guided groups, you'll be well rested for summit day (night, really), and still have energy to go down and out. Plus, if you need to, that allows you to work around some weather. Or if you feel up to it you just bust out of Muir that night and git r done early. If you're in decent shape, and getting up to altitude in CO ever weekend before that, you'll be in much better shape for the mountain than most of the folks up there.

[jsdratm]

I just did the four day summit climb with RMI this weekend and I would highly recommend them. If you have a group of 3 or less they will put you on the same rope team. Our head guide was really experienced and had done Rainier over 100 times and Everest 3 times. We ran into another RMI group led by Peter Whittaker as we were descending. The first day was orientation, the second day was a full day of training on glacier travel, the third day was hiking up to camp muir, and then that night we started at midnight, hit the summit and descended all the way back to the visitor center.

The RMI base camp is also really cool and has the bunkhouse, Whittaker equipment store, equipment rentals, and a restaurant.

Honestly, I think RMI is the best outfitter to go with, since they have a great track record and it is only $1k for everything. Hiring a private guide would probably be more work and you have to worry about getting permits and all that.

[Pops921]

+1 on the answers on rope team size, Whittaker Mountaineering for rentals, trip duration and the ease of following the route on the DC.

However note that the one day RMI training day, only teaches you the basics needed for climbing with experienced partners or guides. They offer 6 day seminars that try teach you all you need to know to be self sufficient (more expensive then the regular climb).

[djkest]

I just did the four day summit climb with RMI this weekend and I would highly recommend them. If you have a group of 3 or less they will put you on the same rope team. Our head guide was really experienced and had done Rainier over 100 times and Everest 3 times. We ran into another RMI group led by Peter Whittaker as we were descending. The first day was orientation, the second day was a full day of training on glacier travel, the third day was hiking up to camp muir, and then that night we started at midnight, hit the summit and descended all the way back to the visitor center.

The RMI base camp is also really cool and has the bunkhouse, Whittaker equipment store, equipment rentals, and a restaurant.

Honestly, I think RMI is the best outfitter to go with, since they have a great track record and it is only $1k for everything. Hiring a private guide would probably be more work and you have to worry about getting permits and all that.

I would totally do it but I don't have $1000 and would also like to complete the whole thing in 3 days or less. I'm sure that RMI is a fine outfit. I have a small child and another on the way, priorities dictate that if I can't do this for cheap (and safely) I won't be doing it at all. Which- might be the net result of this.

I should also add that I have a friend in the area so transportation and lodging will be free, and I would be getting the flight to SEATAC for free using accumulated airline miles.

[Scott P]

I have a small child and another on the way, priorities dictate that if I can't do this for cheap I won't be doing it at all. Which- might be the net result of this.

Maybe find some kind friends to show you the ropes and practice with them.

Anyway, does it have to be Rainier or are you OK with other similar summits?

There are plenty of mountains in the Cascades that will offer similar experiences to Rainier and that are much less expensive, even if they are guided. Rainier is expensive because the demand is high and the number of guide services is limited.