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Culebra Peak - scam or Legit?

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Pay or Steal

Pay
68
70%
Steal
29
30%
 
Total votes : 97
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Postby 2_Salukis » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:07 pm

Mark Milburn wrote:There are valid points on both sides of this argument.


Mark, what are the "valid" points to poaching it? The only points I've seen are to the tune of "because I don't think I should have to pay" - which, if you consider valid, could be an excuse for stealing anything.

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Postby karadiamond » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:22 pm

Hey! If I had private land I would be charging also! We should be glad that they allow some people to climb the peak. 5 years ago when I started 14ers I heard you had to all 14ers to do Culebra. Because of Bill and his site I learned I am wrong. Hey I was caught in the closure of Wilson that year! Hey he closed silver Pickin 3 years ago as I was already staying there. My hubby and I respect him and tried the alternate routes that trip and did not conquer either of the 3 peaks. we would love top do all 3 peaks in the fall if anyone on this forum would join! The we are almost there to 54 peaks!!! Happy trails! Karadiamondhusmann[/i]

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Postby karadiamond » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:22 pm

Hey! If I had private land I would be charging also! We should be glad that they allow some people to climb the peak. 5 years ago when I started 14ers I heard you had to all 14ers to do Culebra. Because of Bill and his site I learned I am wrong. Hey I was caught in the closure of Wilson that year! Hey he closed silver Pickin 3 years ago as I was already staying there. My hubby and I respect him and tried the alternate routes that trip and did not conquer either of the 3 peaks. we would love top do all 3 peaks in the fall if anyone on this forum would join! The we are almost there to 54 peaks!!! Happy trails! Karadiamondhusmann

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Postby Yog » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:25 am

Mark Milburn wrote:
There are valid points on both sides of this argument.


2_Salukis
Mark, what are the "valid" points to poaching it? The only points I've seen are to the tune of "because I don't think I should have to pay" - which, if you consider valid, could be an excuse for stealing anything.


2_Salukis - I should have clarified myself. I do not condone "poaching", stealing, or anything of the sort. Karma is real, whatever spiritual way you believe or wish to clarify it as. However, I do believe in what Skasgaard brought up -
But, then I'm reminded of that native American query, "How can you buy or sell the earth?"


You could get into a massive philosophical discussion about this, but I will only speak for myself in saying I don't want it bad enough to pay for it. There are tons of peaks that are free to climb and enjoy...as they should be. I don't have a problem with people paying for Culebra to complete their 14er list. That's great! I don't need Culebra or Red on "my" list...why? Because it's my list. I'm climbing for myself and no one else. I have nothing to prove to anyone save myself.

If I do end up climbing it someday, it will only be to spend time with my inner, dark, pirate poaching ninja self.

I'm KIDDING :wink:
. . .Now, after the hours of torment . . . I have nothing more to do than breathe . . .I am nothing more than a single, narrow, gasping lung, floating over the mists and the summits.
-Reinhold Messner

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Postby Mel McKinney » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:37 pm

Someone asked earlier if there is another route up Culebra. There is, but the landowner is serious about pressing charges against tresspassers. At least Cielo Vista Ranch allows individuals (complete strangers, no less) to access the mountain. Unfortunately, landowners do have to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits by shutting off the land or by requiring payment and signed waivers.

It may not be the most "exciting" peak, but it offers beautiful views and the near solitude of knowing there will be only 20 people max on the peak at the same time as you. Probably only 500 people per year climb this mountain. It shows in the lack of erosion. It's worth the money and effort if you're wanting to make the top of all the 14ers.

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Postby Mel McKinney » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:42 pm

Arrgh!
Mark, you should join up with the band of pirates lead by Cap't Skwid, since you're off to do some pirating anyway. :wink: :lol:

If I do end up climbing it someday, it will only be to spend time with my inner, dark, pirate poaching ninja self.

Funny line! Actually, we need a pirate emoticon!

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Postby cheeseburglar » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 pm

Unfortunately, landowners do have to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits by shutting off the land or by requiring payment and signed waivers.


This isn't necessarily true. Way too many people live in fear of lawyers and lawsuits, for some reason. The ranch could post a couple of signs regarding liability for hiking. They must have the resources to crush frivolous lawsuits and file a countersuit that would bankrupt the fool who hiked on their land and then sued them!
Or do I have too much faith in the legal system?

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Postby Dan England » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:55 pm

As someone who thought my quest was going to be forever thwarted because of some a-hole who didn't want to allow people on his land, I was thrilled to death to pay $100 for a nine-hour day (cheap entertainment and I took my time) to climb Culebra and Red Mountain with the good folks over at 14erworld.com.

Please don't try to steal it. I want to encourage those nice landowners to leave their land open to anyone, including climbers.

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Postby billygco » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:47 pm

It seems ridiculous that anyone should be able to own a mountain, but a reasonable person could also argue that most of us own some sort of land, whether it is a house, building, etc.

I understand the motivation to want to hike any 14er regardless of the ownership status, but if we all engage in this behavior we may not be able to hike/climb/ski on any of the mountains we love so much.

Sounds like those that have gone with an organized group say it has been a great experience.

Either way - have a blast!

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Postby Matt » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:48 pm

Mel McKinney wrote:Funny line! Actually, we need a pirate emoticon!


I second this. :!:
We are all greater artists than we realize -FWN
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone. -HDT
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Postby pbakwin » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:01 pm

True confessions:
Years ago I climbed Arikaree and Kiowa peaks, which are in the
City of Boulder watershed, hence blatant trespassing. It used to
be an automatic $100 fine, NQA (not sure what they're charging
these days). These must be the 2 least climbed
13ers in the state. I drink Boulder water, and I don't agree with
keeping people out of the watershed, so I feel perfectly fine about
that "trespass". I know its a bit different issue from private property,
but thought I would raise the watershed issue here. I suppose if there
were 14ers in there people would be going nuts over this.

Also, I always love those signs on City of Boulder Open Space:
"Open Space and Mountain Parks - No Public Access".

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Postby 2_Salukis » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:46 pm

Mark Milburn wrote:2_Salukis - I should have clarified myself. I do not condone "poaching", stealing, or anything of the sort. Karma is real, whatever spiritual way you believe or wish to clarify it as. However, I do believe in what Skasgaard brought up -
But, then I'm reminded of that native American query, "How can you buy or sell the earth?"


You could get into a massive philosophical discussion about this,...


I didn't mean to imply that you condone poaching, just wanted to know what the valid reasons were, since I haven't seen any.

IMO, the Native American red herring has little to do with reality - or if someone really subscribes to that philosophy (which, BTW, is not valid in the USA even if they do), then they should have no issues with people camping out on their front doorstep, napping in the bed of their pickup, or pitching a tent in their reserved campsite.

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