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What were they thinking???

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Randy » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:07 pm

tbonesaredelicious wrote:There is no way that rock has been perched like that for 170 million years. And let's be honest, with how precariously it was balanced, I can't imagine it would have been there too much longer. Also, I think dex's argument about walking down a talus field is perfectly valid.

That being said, I think it's easy to harp on these guys because they don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed. I'm not religious, but isn't there a verse that goes something like, He who is free of sin should cast the first stone?


When people do stupid things, they should be held accountable, regardless how many sins we have.

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby aaron479 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:12 pm

Scouting has gone down hill. I would not allow my son to be involved in this organization. Sad really ... I remember those days in the BSA as some of the best days of my life. But, after several incidents (seen with my own eyes) it saddens me to say the organization is beyond repair. I'd rather teach the stewardship and ethics of the outdoors by myself.

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby tlongpine » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:46 pm

IHikeLikeAGirl wrote:This does not bode well for the guy pushing over the rock....

Google "Glenn Taylor lawsuit" and you will see many articles talking about a personal injury lawsuit filed by Mr. Taylor last month.

An excerpt from one article:
Taylor, the man who is seen actually shoving the rock to the ground, had filed a personal injury lawsuit against a woman and her father for injuries he says he suffered in a 2009 car crash. Taylor filed the lawsuit at the beginning of September saying that after that accident he injured his back and had to "endure great pain and suffering, disability, impairment, loss of joy of life." Taylor also says in the lawsuit that the accident was "debilitating."


Oh, that's rich.
I am unable to walk away from the mountain without climbing it. An unclimbed mountain tugs at my consciousness with the eternal weight of time itself. Until I've pressed my face into it's alpine winds, hugged it's ancient granite walls, and put it's weathered summit beneath my heal I'm unable to resist it's attraction.Knowing nature gives the mountain more time than she gives us adds urgency to the obsession. As has been said before; the mountain doesn't care.

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby onebyone » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:21 pm

Randy wrote:There not the only scout leader's that are idiot's believe me. I was rock climbing on Mt. Sugarloaf in NH one fine day. When suddenly rocks of all sizes started raining down on me. I quickly shoved in some pro and rappelled down. I could hear laughing up above. I ran up to the summit to find a Boy Scout troop still rolling rock's over the edge, while one scout leader sat and laughed and the other one just sat there oblivious. I grabbed the laughing one and shook him like a ragdoll, threatening to shove him over the edge, while the now horrified scouts looked on. My buddy backed me off and after asking the scouts if they wanted to throw some more rocks ( they declined) I left. I bet they are so desperate for leaders the vetting process is very easy to get through.


Unless you're gay, of course. lol. Just like everything- I would say most scout leaders do a good job, just like most teachers do a good job. A few bad apples shouldn't give the whole group a bad name. Side note: can't believe this guy has a pending lawsuit, claiming he is permanently disabled.
Some people are just douchebags. Unfortunately, they hurt a lot of people in their douchebagery. (e.g. the reputation of scout leaders and people who are actually debilitated. Sad.

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Fisching » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:55 pm

Wow. That video actually made my jaw drop in disbelief. What. The. F*ck.

By, hey, think of the all the precious children they saved. And here's to wishing a "get well soon" to the rock pusher from his permanent disability. Shall we put together an e-card and send it via his lawyer? I mean he would have pulverized that boulder into gravel had it not been for the limitations of his injury.

Also, can someone help Dex learn what a Straw Man logical fallacy is. He's killing the English teacher in me with the continuous logical absurdities.
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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Tory Wells » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:45 am

Fisching wrote:Also, can someone help Dex learn what a Straw Man logical fallacy is. He's killing the English teacher in me with the continuous logical absurdities.

Dex is hopeless, but thanks for pointing this out.

Comparing a talus slope to Goblin Valley? WTF Dex???
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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Dex » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:30 am

Fisching wrote:
Also, can someone help Dex learn what a Straw Man logical fallacy is. He's killing the English teacher in me with the continuous logical absurdities.



Why aren't you doing it?

Quote the post and explain and why it is a straw man logical fallacy. While you are at it explain why you capitalized S & M in straw man.

To paraphrase and stretch the English proverb* to its limits I would say to you; 'If statements alone were rational thought, English teachers would ride.'


*"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - for those who don't know it.
Last edited by Dex on Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Scott P » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:17 am

There is no way that rock has been perched like that for 170 million years.


That's just how old the rocks are, rather than the formation itself.

And let's be honest, with how precariously it was balanced, I can't imagine it would have been there too much longer.


The rocks in the valley are what makes it so special. It is one of my favorite places in the world. There are many such rocks in the valley, so there are still many more standing, but I've seen very few places in the world like Goblin Valley.

As you can see from the photos below there are many rocks that could be toppled if you wanted to, and they look like they may fall down soon, but they have actually been standing for centuries. One reason that they have lasted so long is because it seldom rains in the area.

Image

Image

Image

Image

You are allowed to explore the rocks and even scramble up them at will, but you aren't supposed to push them over.

They could have used that excuse to topple any of the rocks above. I'm glad more people haven't pushed them over.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Mtnman200 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:31 am

My experience has been that there are people everywhere who do stupid things. As the father of two Eagle Scouts, the fact that the vandals in this case are reportedly "scout leaders" is embarrassing, and I hope that the authorities follow through with charging them with a crime. Understandably, there has been some bashing of Boy Scouts in this thread. I would like to point out that in general, scout leaders are just parents who have volunteered to help run things, and while their qualifications can be all over the map, the intentions are usually good.

I'd also like to point out that the good that Boy Scouts do far outweighs anything negative. As an example, below is a quote from a 10/16/13 email I received from one of my coworkers about her Eagle Scout son Curtis Ray ("Cray"), whose Eagle Court of Honor my wife and I attended on 4/13/13:

"Some of you already know – some of you don’t....so, I wanted to take a minute and share with y’all a bit of news about my son, Cray.

The Capitol Area Council for Boy Scouts of America has forwarded to the National BSA Council (in Irving), a request from the Williamson County EMS , for Cray to be considered for the Honor Medal with Crossed Palms. Since 1924, only 277 Scouts have been given this award.

On September 18, we were coming home from Cray’s basketball game. It was about 10:15 at night and we were travelling on Leander Road, which can be very dark and has several “S” curves. It was on one of these dark curves, that we came across a man lying in the road...”flopping” around. He had been in a one-man motorcycle accident – and his right leg had been ripped off. There were already 3 people on the scene – one was on the phone with 911, the other two stood there watching the man die.

Without hesitation or thoughts of his own safety, Cray jumped out of our car, ran over to the man, took off his basketball jersey and started a tourniquet. Curtis and I followed, but by the time we got the car parked, turned off and got over to the man, Cray had already secured the jersey around the stump, but it wasn’t enough to stop the bleeding. Curtis used his shirt as an additional tourniquet. Cray started looking for vitals, which he found a very faint pulse, and prepared his head/neck for CPR, while I was trying to talk to him, hold his hand, etc.... Once blood flow started to build back up in him, he was able to speak – but barely...he was in severe shock. Cray asked his name, DOB, and continued to maintain vitals. Another guy stopped, and handed over his military issued nylon belt, but couldn’t help with the gruesome first aid being rendered. Cray and Curtis used the belt to replace the jersey/shirt. DPS arrived on the scene about 9 minutes after we got there and supplied another tourniquet – and about 4 minutes after, EMS finally arrived and took him to Brackenridge. The man is the father of 3 year old twins and a 2 year old daughter. Though he lost his leg, and endured significant blood loss, he survived.

Cray –being only 15 years old, remained cool, calm and very collected during the whole ordeal. He demonstrated not only his first aid skills – but his love for mankind. He has grown up to be quite a young man and we are very, very proud of him....all 6’5” of him!

On October 29, 2013, at 9:30 a.m., Cray will be honored by Williamson County EMS during the Commissioner’s Court."


I don't think that Cray is actually eligible for the Honor Medal with Crossed Palms because that is reserved for cases in which the scout risked his own life, and from my coworker's description, it doesn't sound like he did. However, Cray certainly qualifies for the Lifesaving award. In any event, I'll bet that the injured man and his family will be forever thankful for the skills that Cray learned in Boy Scouts.
"Adventure without risk is not possible." - Reinhold Messner

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Scott P » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:37 am

I would like to point out that in general, scout leaders are just parents who have volunteered to help run things, and while their qualifications can be all over the map, the intentions are usually good.


In Utah, at least if you are a Mormon, you are "called" to be a scout leader rather than just step up and volunteer. Everyone in the LDS church is called for a certain duty. Many people called to be scout leaders don't have the slightest clue about what they are doing, or they don't give a crap about the environment. In my opinion at least, that is why the scouts in Utah get into so much trouble. Sadly, it is fairly common that they are being rescued, or caught doing some harm.
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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby tbonesaredelicious » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:16 am

I'm not saying these guys were right. In my opinion, they should have left well enough alone. Not having been There myself, I found this interesting write up of the geology in that area. http://geology.utah.gov/online/pdf/pi-65.pdf

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Re: What were they thinking???

Postby Rock-a-Fella » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:34 am

Fisching wrote:Wow. That video actually made my jaw drop in disbelief. What. The. F*ck.

By, hey, think of the all the precious children they saved. And here's to wishing a "get well soon" to the rock pusher from his permanent disability. Shall we put together an e-card and send it via his lawyer? I mean he would have pulverized that boulder into gravel had it not been for the limitations of his injury.

Also, can someone help Dex learn what a Straw Man logical fallacy is. He's killing the English teacher in me with the continuous logical absurdities.


Just saw a piece on Morning News (NBC). Looks like his "Disability Law Suit" from 4 years ago might be in trouble.

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