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A video of how to not self-arrest.

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby Stereo311 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:13 pm

GLAD THAT HE IS OKAY. HOPEFULLY WE CAN LEARN WHAT TO DO FROM THIS VIDEO. I AM APPreaciative for this video. I, like many hikers, have not practiced the proper self arrest (over and over) again on a proper slope. I have practiced on a very mellow slope (Castle Peak), in perfect circumstances. Thanks for posting this and keep please keep me in mind for future hikes. I would love to learn more about SELF ARREST. I am hoping that other hikers will contact me to practice the proper technique on a safe slope. It seems like the person in this video is very brave for attempting the moves that he is doing. Many of us have been guilty of climbing stuff beyond are expertise, especially me. I say Thanks for the video. I know from experience (jacked up left arm, when younger) that it hurts to learn the hard way.

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby DaveSwink » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:30 pm

Anybody notice the two objects in the sky in seconds 22 & 23? He looks up and it looks as though two pieces of ice are flying into the slope above him (from where?) several seconds before the big chunk of ice comes down on him. It is probably nothing, I just noticed while playing the video slowly.

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby BlueKhan » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:07 am

DaveSwink wrote:Anybody notice the two objects in the sky in seconds 22 & 23? He looks up and it looks as though two pieces of ice are flying into the slope above him (from where?) several seconds before the big chunk of ice comes down on him. It is probably nothing, I just noticed while playing the video slowly.


Yeah, WTF? I noticed those the first time that I watched it. The Giz vid is more panned out and you can see them more clearly. Meteorites? The timing of those UFO's seem to pretty well timed to the falling ice. I can't stop thinking about Joe Dirt's french fries...but, what the hell could they be?

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby Doug Shaw » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:12 am

Birds.

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby DaveSwink » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:51 am

Wow, ice-bombing birds. :shock: That's down right evil.

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby seth0687 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:46 am

This was the information on the fall that I could find online....who knows if it is accurate or not. Sounds like he was all bruised up and had a broken ankle as well.

"In Late February 2013, Mark Roberts was climbing Parsley Fern Lefthand Gully. Mid climb he was knocked right off the mountain by a large chunk of ice. He proceeds to fall hundreds of feet down the mountain until he eventually comes to a stop. Mark survived the fall without permanent injuries."

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby Dex » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:11 am

Doug Shaw wrote:
That said, I think the generally-recommended course of action is to tuck in: get your body as close to the slope as you can so that you minimize your profile and, if you are hit, have a helmet between your head and the projectile, and your pack to help protect your back.



That sound smart.

Questions - Should he have been roped in in those conditions?

Could he have self arrested with the ice tools he had?

While falling he looked like he was in a chute - is it even possilbe to self arrest with ice tools in that area?

His, crampons didn't hit the snow, so he was doing something right.

I don't ever plan to ice climb like that but it is interesting to learn from it.
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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby Alby426 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:35 am

Glad to hear he is ok.

Couple of points about this exceptional video:

1- things happen very fast! React quickly and, try to be ready.

2- I am wondering if, during his rest stops, he wouldn't have been better off sinking the shank of his axe in the snow?

3- always tuck when objects come at you, let the helmet do it's job.

4- it is way easier to sit here and speculate than, to be up there and requiring good judgment, so, good habbits are important ( I am very guilty of not having them).
My duty, as a human, is not to take, but, to give!

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby shearmodulus » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:03 am

dpage wrote:I'm not an ice/steep snow climber and would like to learn something from this.So what is the appropriate response if caught beneath some falling ice?


Stay out of the debris path when your partner is climbing an avalanche hazard route until he/she has cleared the hazard area. That way if he/she triggers a slide, both of you aren't caught in it.

Don't lose your ice axe. It's literally your life on the line.
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads...."

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby atalarico » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:37 pm

My apologies for coming across harsh. It sounds like he was hit by something that knocked him off his feet. Regardless, he somehow lost two leashed semi-technical axes. Two...leashed...axes. That's just absurd. His feet do get caught toward the end and it looked like they get thrashed around quite a bit, and it really just looks like he's sitting back sledding instead of making an effort to turn over and arrest. I'm sure he was petrified but good god man!

My biggest gripe though is that it was broadcast on a non-mountaineering website, Gizmodo, and it made the rest of us climbers look like total idiots (or more so than our usual self-deprecating levels). Yeah, I have made mistakes too, and I've walked away from things that could have been much worse. None of mine were on video though, so yeah, and if they were I certainly wouldn't tell my local mountaineering club about it (this video was originally on the BMC's site).

The discussion on Mountain Project's forum is quite entertaining...http://mountainproject.com/v/self-arrest-fail/108032522

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby Doug Shaw » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:57 pm

Dex wrote:Questions - Should he have been roped in in those conditions?
Could he have self arrested with the ice tools he had?
While falling he looked like he was in a chute - is it even possilbe to self arrest with ice tools in that area?


Tough to say. I probably would have wanted to be roped up, but I've never been there and I'm looking at the situation with hindsight. Climbing a snow couloir is one thing, but this gully was rocky and icy and a fall could have (should have?) had very serious consequences. Once you've picked up speed, stopping with a self-arrest is already tough even in good snow conditions - given the nature of the gully and how he bounced around on rocks and ice, I don't know whether he would have been able to arrest in those conditions even if he had kept his tools.

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Re: A video of how to not self-arrest.

Postby Stevo68 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:29 am

I had a incident like this. I was up in the medicine now range. I had a handful of backcountry outings prior to this. At the time I would say I was a noob mountaineer but experienced snowboarder fighting money and resources. I had never practiced self arrest nor watched it but out of instinct i flipped to my stomach knowing i wouldnt be able to stop.But after my mistake I knew immediately what lead to each careless mistake and how I will learn from it. 1. Didn't let the snow soften up enough 2. Mislead by surrounding landmarks. 3. Lack of proper equipment. 4. Being scared out of my mind. Here the link of course on camera.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGU711zEbz0&list=UUMSEWtrJEMqvxPz5edU0xyw&index=3

Be critical, make judgements, I don't care, I've been out many times since learned from this, experience,readings; I got appropriate gear now and at the end of the day not make a mistake like this again :oops:

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