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Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby aliciaf » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:28 am

Wow, I can't believe this is still being discussed - I thought everything had been resolved yesterday. Why can't everyone just get along?!?! #-o

I think it's clear from here on out, organizers are planning on group hikes only being in non-wilderness areas per wilderness regulations (although I don't quite understand the logic, as a mountain in a non-wilderness area is still going to receive the same wear & tear from a group as a mountain in a wilderness area, but I digress...). The argument has been resolved to appease both sides - one side can still have their fun, group hikes; while the other can sit well knowing the rules/regulations are being followed. What's done is done and what's been said has been said. Let's move on and get on with our lives. No sense in holding grudges or being hostile towards people. That's NOT what life's about. Life's about enjoying the great outdoors and the relationships we make - live it to the fullest... there's no room for negativity as it will only drag you and others around you down. People lead different lives and enjoy different lifestyles - who are we to judge the way others live their lives and spend their time?

ANYWAY, on a more POSITIVE note (because that's the kind of person I personally strive to be)... I'm thankful for:
1. My wonderful husband who makes me push myself physically and mentally in the mountains, which has allowed me to summit so many amazing mountains in Colorado and elsewhere
2. My cat who keeps me company when my husband is away travelling for work
3. The fact that my husband HAS a paying job that helps us live the lifestyle we love, despite my frustrations with how much he travels
4. Having a great job myself that is fairly stable and pays my bills
5. The ability to walk and move about so that I can carry myself up to the summits
6. The common sense I have to know when to turn around so that I don't get stuck in a bad position in bad weather
7. The people I've met on this website and in the hiking community that have helped me become a better hiker/climber
8. Having a family who waits on my text that I'm back to the car after my hike. Sometimes the worrying can be a little overwhelming, but it's better to be worried about than not.

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby rijaca » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:32 am

zdero1 wrote:I stand by my comments. Wilderness area or not, the climb Anna organizing is essentially the same. Hypocritical to call out the organizers of a similar climb if you ask me.


If you can't distinguish the difference between a memorial (charitable) climb in non-wilderness area and a party in a Wilderness area, maybe you should stay out of the mountains.
"Spent a little time on the mountain
Spent a little time on the hill"

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby geojed » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:55 am

This back and forth with all the sanctimonious, judgmental, and holier-than-thou attitudes thrown around over this tempest in a teapot when we all have "motes" in our eyes and see "through a glass darkly" would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. smh (How about that tremendous mixing of metaphors huh? Might be a world record!)

HOF worthy? More like HOS worthy...
Let me summarize what has been said: :barf off: :cussing: :guns: :justkillme: :thefinger: :fight: :-({|= and :xST leading to :deadhorse:

It's like a slow motion car crash, I can't look away, but I'm really starting to get tired of all the popcorn eating...
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• It's by getting away from life that we can see it most clearly... It's by depriving ourselves of the myriad of everyday experiences that we renew our appreciation for them...I've learned from my experiences in the mountains that I love life. — Dave Johnston
• Mountains are not climbed merely to reach a geographical location — but as personal and spiritual challenges to the participants. — David Stein
• The best climber in the world is the one who’s having the most fun.— Alex Lowe
• Why do I climb the mountain? Because I'm in love! — The Captain

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby wildlobo71 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:59 am

rijaca wrote:
zdero1 wrote:I stand by my comments. Wilderness area or not, the climb Anna organizing is essentially the same. Hypocritical to call out the organizers of a similar climb if you ask me.


If you can't distinguish the difference between a memorial (charitable) climb in non-wilderness area and a party in a Wilderness area, maybe you should stay out of the mountains.


I don't think anyone is confused about the intent of the hikes - one to celebrate, one to memorialize. What I think Mike is speaking to is that fact that the environment, within a Wilderness area or not, doesn't care about intent - all that affects it, and what the rules/regulations are there for, is volume of people, pack animals and minimalizing total impact. What harms nature more, 30 people with a keg or 85 people? The keg is not the issue, here, for this point. I don't know how many people are planning on attending the gathering, but it seems like quite a few have replied.

If the concern is the imagery of the keg on top of a mountain, I understand that - it happens very rarely. However rude, inconsiderate, boorish, or whatever you may consider it, it isn't prohibited in the wilderness area.

Thanks Jed. I only wish I snuck this in prior to yours...
Only SUN will melt the sadness.

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby SurfNTurf » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:06 am

I wouldn't mind seeing this locked. A compromise has been reached, everyone has said their piece and nothing positive can come from further commentary.
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“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby Oman » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:11 am

"Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself."
-- Potter Stewart

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby SurfNTurf » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:12 am

Oman wrote:"Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself."
-- Potter Stewart


Given the last two pages...absolutely.
Ice and Trail (Blog)

“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby Billy the Kid » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:13 am

Wait, I forgot...what was the original point of this thread???

I am so thankful for all the resources this site provides, but a few of you take yourselves WAY to serious!

Happy trails,

Billy
"Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting. So, be on your way."- Dr. Seuss
"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."- Michael Scott

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby viejo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:26 am

Is there a more pure form of irony than reading the last 6 or so pages of this thread, and then going back and reading the original post?

Thanks for the laugh!

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby geojed » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:33 am

viejo wrote:Is there a more pure form of irony than reading the last 6 or so pages of this thread, and then going back and reading the original post?

Good point, and what makes it even MORE ironic is that it's Anna's own boyfriend Kimo who brought the
Anna wrote:bitching, bragging, and bull-shitting of the 14ers.com drama kings and queens
from Keri's finisher thread over into this thread that she created specifically to get away from the
Anna wrote:bitching, bragging, and bull-shitting of the 14ers.com drama kings and queens
:lol:
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• It's by getting away from life that we can see it most clearly... It's by depriving ourselves of the myriad of everyday experiences that we renew our appreciation for them...I've learned from my experiences in the mountains that I love life. — Dave Johnston
• Mountains are not climbed merely to reach a geographical location — but as personal and spiritual challenges to the participants. — David Stein
• The best climber in the world is the one who’s having the most fun.— Alex Lowe
• Why do I climb the mountain? Because I'm in love! — The Captain

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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby Chicago Transplant » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:37 am

Wilderness is limited to certain select areas that in particular have limited impacts from the works of Man. Preserving those specific areas by adhering to the principles and regulations of Wilderness is considered by many to be important. Call it sanctimonious or holier than thou all you want, maybe we are? If we are we are proud to work to protect those areas. While yes, it can be shameful to see the non-Wilderness areas be abused and I for one welcome the idea of creating more Wilderness, to me it is an even greater shame to abuse an area that has already been set aside for special protection. Does that not in effect reduce the amount of Wilderness through its abuse and destruction?

Here are some direct quotes from the Wilderness Act:

In order to assure that an increasing population, accompanied by an expanding settlement and growing mechanization, does not occupy and modify all areas within the United States and its possessions... it is hereby declared to be the policy of the Congress to secure for the American people of present and future generations the benefits of an enduring resource of wilderness.


A wilderness, in contrast to those areas where man and his works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.


...protected and managed so as to preserve its natural conditions and which (1) generally appears to have been affected primarily by the forces of nature, with the imprint of man's work substantially unnoticeable; (2) has outstanding opportunities for solitude and a primitive and unconfined type of recreation.


While I am in the camp of people who would rather see no large gatherings, I am not naive enough to think such things will never exist. Management of our public lands is about trying to find a balance between all user groups. While it is true the majority of 14ers are in Wilderness, the amount of Wilderness acreage is actually quite limited in the grand scheme of things. Colorado has just under 3.7 million acres of Wilderness, which represents 3% of all the Wilderness total in the Unites States (interesting fact is that 52% of all Wilderness is in Alaska). We should feel lucky to live in a state with so much of our land protected. Ohio has a measly 77 acres of Wilderness, for perspective, Cedar Point amusement part is over 350 acres, or more than 4 1/2 times the total size of all Wilderness in Ohio combined!

When it comes to designated Wilderness, we need to be able to manage ourselves in a way that is conducive to the intents of the Wilderness Act and help protect these lands.

September 3rd, 2014 will mark the 50th anniversary of the Act. I think the best way to honor it would be to have a "non-gathering", a day in which we all pledge to not enter a Wilderness area and give Wilderness a "day off" from Man.

So to bring this back to the original point of the thread, I am thankful to live in a state with so much of its public lands designated at Wilderness
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Re: Anti-Festivus Airing of Non-Grievances

Postby MountainHiker » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:56 am

I’m thankful for the ability to ignore most of the crap that happens online.
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