Forum
Buying gear? Please use these links to help 14ers.com:

More info...

Other ways to help...

Poaching Trenches

Items that do not fit the categories above.

Is it ok to "poach" a trench?

It's my trench and I put all the hard work into. Stay out of it.
3
3%
Poaching a trench is good strategy. Less work for me.
10
9%
Quid pro quo.
12
10%
Who cares?
50
43%
It was "there" when I showed up. Give me a break.
17
15%
This was a problem?
25
21%
 
Total votes : 117
User avatar
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:41 pm
Location: waiting to see if my doom is impending

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby DeucesWild » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:08 pm

MntOwl wrote:Google, Poaching Trenches; this thread comes up second.

I hear...

"crab people"
"crab people"
"trench poachers"
"trench poachers"

...when I read this thread


Inspiration in frustration; A deuce short story:

People poaching crabs in the trenches were interrupted and confounded by cats that had no business there to begin with. Damn cats!
Snowflakes, Uber Alles!

www.deuceIRA.com. Put the Douche in your FiDeuceiary needs today!!

User avatar
Posts: 1564
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:13 am
Location: Littleton, CO

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby Tory Wells » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

JeffR wrote:I have no qualms poaching a ski track when snowshoeing. :-$

I'm a bad person.

As a nordic skier I can say (and I'm sure the ski mountaineers will agree as well), snowshoeing in a ski track is bad form. [-X
"Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, am I." -David Gilmour, Pink Floyd

"We knocked the bastard off." Hillary, 1953
"It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves." Hillary, 2003
Couldn't we all use 50 years of humble growth?
-Steve Gladbach

User avatar
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:41 am
Location: Denver

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby speth » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:05 pm

Tory Wells wrote:
JeffR wrote:I have no qualms poaching a ski track when snowshoeing. :-$

I'm a bad person.

As a nordic skier I can say (and I'm sure the ski mountaineers will agree as well), snowshoeing in a ski track is bad form. [-X


What's the alternative on a cleared, wooded trail? Relegated to the trees?
I'll be damned if I feel like I will ever know anything, but if we don't keep moving on that last hill, we'll never know what's on the other side.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The rain and thunder, the wind and haze are bound for better days. My life, my dream. Nothin's gonna stop me now.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[-X What are you insinuating? Do you think I'm Ranger? =; Because if you do than you are dead wrong.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sarcasm or not, it's not even funny to post something like this. Not at this time. Reported.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
rage-quit mountaineer wrote:I give up. Bill, just delete my account.

User avatar
Posts: 1564
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:13 am
Location: Littleton, CO

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby Tory Wells » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:11 pm

speth wrote:
Tory Wells wrote:
JeffR wrote:I have no qualms poaching a ski track when snowshoeing. :-$

I'm a bad person.

As a nordic skier I can say (and I'm sure the ski mountaineers will agree as well), snowshoeing in a ski track is bad form. [-X


What's the alternative on a cleared, wooded trail? Relegated to the trees?

If on a trail, there's no other alternative but for everyone to share. But a ski track quickly becomes a trench after more than two people have gone through, so it doesn't really matter at that point.
"Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, am I." -David Gilmour, Pink Floyd

"We knocked the bastard off." Hillary, 1953
"It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves." Hillary, 2003
Couldn't we all use 50 years of humble growth?
-Steve Gladbach

User avatar
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:55 pm

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby Jon Frohlich » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:19 pm

MntOwl wrote:Google, Poaching Trenches; this thread comes up second.


I really shouldn't be curious but I had to look up what was first.

http://www.thetrenchesforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13626

Basically it's a site about grown men playing with dolls (fine, action figures). There is apparently symmetry in absurdity.

User avatar
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:14 am
Location: Leadville, CO

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby chick-a-dee » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:13 pm

For you Deuces....

www.carca.ca

Saw the movie at the Banff film festival tonight and thought of you.

User avatar
Posts: 1544
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: Arvada, CO

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby coloradokevin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:08 am

When I hear people complain about trench poaching I almost have to assume that they're the type of person who really isn't happy about most things in their lives. Who cares, really? If so, why?

I mostly hear these complaints in regards to snowshoers using a skier's skin tracks, and thereby degrading the skin track for other skiers. This seems like a somewhat valid argument, except for the fact that the skiers who arrive at a later date/time would have never even had a skin track if someone else hadn't laid it down for them in the first place. Why should those "lazy" skiers be anymore entitled to another person's trench than the snowshoer who follows? In other words, you aren't entitled to a skin track, but you might as well use it if you find it!

I have from time to time heard people complain that it is "bad ethics" or "cheating" to use a trench that someone else created, even if you are using it by the same mode of transportation as the trail breaker (snowshoes/skis). Frankly, that's even more absurd to me. Climbing mountains is tough work, and we all do things to try to make it easier (lighter gear, better equipment, snowshoes and skis for flotation, better footwear, etc). If we're going to argue that everyone should have to set their own track to claim a summit, then we may as well also require everyone to do it sans flotation gear, while wallowing up to their nipples in snow.

I guess the trench poaching argument probably has some relevance for those folks who like to brag about their climb times. A person who's breaking trail in fresh powder is obviously going to move slower than they would if they were following a track. But, I'm not racing, I'm recreating. As such, I could hardly care less about that particular argument.

So, I'll continue to follow a broken trail that leads where I want it to go, and I'll continue to ignore those trails that don't lead where I'm heading. And, if anyone wants to have words with me about it on the trail (I actually do know a couple of people who have been chastised for such "ethics violations" within the past couple of seasons) I'll be happy to let them know where I stand on the issue.


Tory Wells wrote:If I make a trench, please use it.

If you make a trench, thank you, I'm gonna use it.

If you make a trench and complain about me using it, go f**k yourself. :mrgreen:



^ Thank you for summarizing my entire post into three simply lines!


crossfitter wrote:When in doubt, there's only one simple rule to follow: don't be an a**hole. (http://www.splitterchoss.com/2011/01/06/the-only-rule-dont-be-an-hole/Intentionally starting late to let others lay a trench down so you can cruise? A**hole.


I'd only see that one applying if you're hiking in a group, and displaying an attitude that demonstrates an unwillingness to contribute to the team effort. I often have the luxury and curse of poaching trenches do to my schedule. I work nights, and my "mornings" often start when many people are reaching their destination. This often kills my chances of getting first tracks, fresh snow, etc. But, it provides me with nice trenches. Pretty much the world of unintended consequences, I guess.

But, does anyone really owe anything to a bunch of strangers who may or may not be hiking up a mountain on any given day? If I got a late start so that my climbing partner had to go early and break trail for me, I could see the a$$hat badge applying as a result of my behavior. But, if I follow the tracks of those strangers who wake earlier than I do, I don't think that makes me a butt-wipe.

In other words, I think the concept of trench poaching ethics may apply to team-oriented efforts, but as an individual on a mountain I don't really owe anything to the strangers around me, and they don't really owe anything to me (at least in terms of trail breaking efforts -- I'd always give up a summit attempt to help someone in an emergency). But, even with that said, sometimes a team will willfully elect to have certain people break trail, while others do not. In the past I've willingly broken trail for a group of weaker climbers, to improve the odds of everyone getting a chance to summit. At various points in my life I've surely had the opportunity to take advantage of the strength and endurance of someone who was doing better than I was. And, I've certainly traded off trail-breaking duties on a number of trips.
Last edited by coloradokevin on Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Posts: 1544
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: Arvada, CO

Re: Poaching Trenches

Postby coloradokevin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:11 am

silverlynx wrote:Is it just me or does trench-poaching sound like something really inappropriate you would expect to see defined on Urban Dictionary?


Well, you just had to take my mind in that direction, didn't you? But, now that you mention it... Yeah.


Of course, that's not the only climbing term that could be taken the wrong way:

"Post-holing" comes to mind.

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests