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13yo to climb Everest?!

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby ruincu » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:56 pm

Annapurna (8,091 m)
In total, only 130 climbers have summited Annapurna, while 53 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 41%.
Nanga Parbat (8,125m)
216 climbers have summited Nanga Parbat and 61 have died. The overall fatality rate thus 28.24%.
K2 (8,611 m)
Fewer than 200 climbers have summited the world's second highest peak – 198 total. 53 have died. K2's overall fatality rate is 26.77%.

Kangchenjunga (8,586 m)
To date, only 185 climbers have summited Kangchenjunga and 40 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 22%.
Manaslu (8,163 m)
To date, 240 climbers have summited Manaslu and 52 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 21.67%.
Dhaulagiri (8,167 m)
To date, 313 climbers have summited Dhaulagiri and 56 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 18%.
Makalu (8,485 m)
To date, 206 climbers have summited Makalu and 22 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 11%.
Gasherbrum I (8,080m)
Since 1958, only 195 climbers have summited Gasherbrum I and 21 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 10.77%.
Shisha Pangma (8,027m)
To date, 201 climbers have summited Shisha Pangma and 19 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 9.5%.
Everest (8,848m)
Today, Everest has hosted close to 2,000 successful summits. 179 people have perished giving a fatality rate of 9.3%.
Broad Peak (8,051 m)
A mere 255 climbers have summited Broad Peak and 18 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 7%.
Lhotse (8,516 m)
To date, 243 climbers have summited Lhotse and 11 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 4%.
Gasherbrum II (8,034 m)
As for GII, a total of 650 climbers have summited the peak and 17 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 2.62%.
Cho Oyu (8,188 m)
To date, about 1,400 climbers have summited Cho Oyu and 35 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 2.5%,

Other statistics:

Smoking:
Each year, 440,000 people die of diseases causes by smoking or another form of tobacco use, that’s about 20% of all deaths in the United States.

Junk food & doing nothing:
Each year, 300,000 people die of poor diet and physical inactivity, that's about 14% of all deaths in the United States, second only to tobacco use. Nearly 59 million adults are obese in US, and the percentage of young people who are overweight has more than doubled in the last 20 years. Fifteen percent of Americans aged 6–19 years are overweight.

Traffic accidents:
Each year nearly 5,000 Americans die in truck crashes. In 1995, 98% of the people killed in two-vehicle crashes involving passenger cars and big trucks were occupants of the passenger vehicles.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby JeffR » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:26 pm

DeTour wrote:How is it you guys can't understand that kids are kids? The fact that his climbing ability and experience exceeds that of some adults on Everest doesn't mean he should be up there. Every law that treats children differently than adults, either by affording them greater protection than adults, or denying them certain privileges (often for their protection) -- every time a parent invokes his/her authority over a child -- every rule enforced in a school system -- is based on the premise that children lack either the maturity, or experience, or both, required to make some decisions on their own. So it's not so much Jordan Romero deciding to climb Everest as it is his [adult] parents deciding to allow and support him. Therefore if he dies up there, the responsibility for the end of such an extraordinary young life is not on the deceased, but on the parents.

You know that he lacks the maturity and experience to make the decision himself? Oh, you must know him personally then, right? Guess what... I'm thinking that his parents (ya know, the people who let him make the decision) know him pretty well too. And if it should turn out bad, I'm sure the parents will accept the responsibility and not be castigated for it.

DeTour wrote:Now if he goes through with it, we all hope he returns safely. And if so, whether he summits or not, you can bet that another kid that age or younger will want to give it a shot. And sooner or later a kid who has no business being up there will die, and it will be the parents' fault. So we' have a new and creative way for idiot parents to abuse their children for their (the parents') 15 minutes of fame. Now hear me right: I'm not saying Jordan Romero's parents are idiot abusers. But you know the idiot abuser parents will show up eventually.

Yes, fine, you're 100% correct... if some parents force their protesting child up Everest at gunpoint, then they are abusers. Happy now?

DeTour wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the fatality rate on Everest in the 5-10% range? I wouldn't willingly allow my 13-year-old to take that type of risk, no matter what the reward.

Well, when you become Jordan's parent, feel free to make that decision.

DeTour wrote:By the way, I'd like to know which of the posters in the "let him do it" club have children, and what age.

Since your follow up question is blatantly obvious, I'll go ahead and answer it. No, I would not allow my 12-year to attempt Everest because she is in no way prepared for it. But she's not Jordan, is she?
To recognize the beauty in sadness, without playing host to the pain...
- Under the Sun, "Reflections"

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby DeTour » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:02 am

cvrti5 wrote:Our monkey ancestors used to reach puberty and start their own families at 13. Our perception that a 13 year old is immature is an a priori social misconception. If you teach your kids to be immature until they reach 18 or 21, it's your business. If the kid really wants to grow up and climb, let him. His immaturity is just a perceived social expectation.

Now that's one of the more rational arguments in favor of him climbing (once I found the right definition of a priori). I don't know about the monkey part, but many human societies in the past conveyed adult rights and responsibilities at that age.

Still ... it's a fact that the brain is far from fully developed at age 13. (Of course, this forum is proof that some brains aren't fully developed at any age! :lol: ) You can't just blithely write off the parents' responsibility, or ignore the age factor. From what little I've read of it, it seems decision-making is so critical to safe mountaineering in the Death Zone. Taking a youngster into it with a mentality of "racing the clock," so to speak, in an age-record quest, sounds like a bad combination - as noted in the Outside Online article.

I am not certain that he should not attempt Everest, as stated in my first post. I'm just annoyed at the people who are certain it's okay. I still say if it doesn't make you cringe a little, you're out to lunch.
when you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby Shawnee Bob » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:19 am

Here's a question. I'm assuming Jordan and his climbing partners will be working as a team. How do you feel about the possibility of putting your life in the hands of a 13-year-old while stuck in the death zone? Not making a judgment, just asking a question that was posed on the Outside article.
Because life's too short to be an indoor cat.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby Kevo » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:43 am

ruincu wrote:Annapurna (8,091 m)
In total, only 130 climbers have summited Annapurna, while 53 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 41%.
Nanga Parbat (8,125m)
216 climbers have summited Nanga Parbat and 61 have died. The overall fatality rate thus 28.24%.
K2 (8,611 m)
Fewer than 200 climbers have summited the world's second highest peak – 198 total. 53 have died. K2's overall fatality rate is 26.77%.

Kangchenjunga (8,586 m)
To date, only 185 climbers have summited Kangchenjunga and 40 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 22%.
Manaslu (8,163 m)
To date, 240 climbers have summited Manaslu and 52 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 21.67%.
Dhaulagiri (8,167 m)
To date, 313 climbers have summited Dhaulagiri and 56 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 18%.
Makalu (8,485 m)
To date, 206 climbers have summited Makalu and 22 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 11%.
Gasherbrum I (8,080m)
Since 1958, only 195 climbers have summited Gasherbrum I and 21 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 10.77%.
Shisha Pangma (8,027m)
To date, 201 climbers have summited Shisha Pangma and 19 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 9.5%.
Everest (8,848m)
Today, Everest has hosted close to 2,000 successful summits. 179 people have perished giving a fatality rate of 9.3%.
Broad Peak (8,051 m)
A mere 255 climbers have summited Broad Peak and 18 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 7%.
Lhotse (8,516 m)
To date, 243 climbers have summited Lhotse and 11 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 4%.
Gasherbrum II (8,034 m)
As for GII, a total of 650 climbers have summited the peak and 17 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 2.62%.
Cho Oyu (8,188 m)
To date, about 1,400 climbers have summited Cho Oyu and 35 have died. The overall fatality rate is thus 2.5%,

Other statistics:

Smoking:
Each year, 440,000 people die of diseases causes by smoking or another form of tobacco use, that’s about 20% of all deaths in the United States.

Junk food & doing nothing:
Each year, 300,000 people die of poor diet and physical inactivity, that's about 14% of all deaths in the United States, second only to tobacco use. Nearly 59 million adults are obese in US, and the percentage of young people who are overweight has more than doubled in the last 20 years. Fifteen percent of Americans aged 6–19 years are overweight.

Traffic accidents:
Each year nearly 5,000 Americans die in truck crashes. In 1995, 98% of the people killed in two-vehicle crashes involving passenger cars and big trucks were occupants of the passenger vehicles.


Your statistical methods are way off. Fatality rate is not deaths/summits. It is actually deaths/attempts. Far more people attempt each of the 8000m peaks than summit, thus, the overall fatality rate is actually much lower than what you've posted here.

Also, there are huge objective hazards that can't be mitigated, but a willingness to turn around limits subjective hazards. The fatality rate for those willing to turn around is even lower than the overall fatality rate.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby DeTour » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:02 pm

Okay, so after getting some people ticked off by questioning the idea, now I'm rooting for the kid ...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/04/26/teen.everest.climber/index.html?hpt=Sbin
when you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby mtnduck9 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:33 pm

DeTour, I agree with you!

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby summit2sea » Thu May 20, 2010 11:33 am


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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby winmag4582001 » Thu May 20, 2010 3:21 pm

I think it is cool. I have a thirteen yearold son and if he had the skill and desire and I had the money, I'd let him attempt it. Like any parent, safety would come first and no risk of life or limb would be taken.
"Remember, you're unique, just like everybody else."-Joel Bernardini

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby Woodie Hopper » Thu May 20, 2010 3:22 pm

Hopefully all goes well for him. I'm not looking forward to the day the first minor dies on Everest. Risk can be avoided or minimized, but not eliminated.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby DeTour » Thu May 20, 2010 8:28 pm

winmag4582001 wrote:I'd let him attempt it ... safety would come first and no risk of life or limb would be taken.

I don't know how you can reconcile those two statements. By definition, climbing Everest is risking life and limb.
when you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Re: 13yo to climb Everest?!

Postby winmag4582001 » Thu May 20, 2010 8:39 pm

DeTour wrote:
winmag4582001 wrote:I'd let him attempt it ... safety would come first and no risk of life or limb would be taken.

I don't know how you can reconcile those two statements. By definition, climbing Everest is risking life and limb.



And so is playing in front of the house.
"Remember, you're unique, just like everybody else."-Joel Bernardini

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