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Mountaineering controversy

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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby covfrrider » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:43 pm

ESPN = Entertainment and Sports Programming Network

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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby Tory Wells » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:45 pm

Ever seen all the freakin' people on Pikes Peak when they run the Ascent/Marathon? That's what happens when they make mountain climbing a "sport." Personally, I'd prefer to see our sport remain under the radar. If they were to put it in the Olympics, all of a sudden there'd be thousands of more people up there trying to climb a mountain, to climb like Michael Phelps or Kobe Bryant or whoever the cheese of climbing would be.

I say we hide this thread so the corporate A-holes don't find it and decide that there is big money to be made in organizing mountain climbing like they do poker and bowing. Down with ESPN!!!!!
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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby cheeseburglar » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Follow this logic, if you will:
Sports are on ESPN. I've only ever seen mountaineering on Discovery, TLC, documentary channels, and the occasional Monty Python episode. Therefore, mountaineering must be educational. Continuing education and college is a tax deduction, I think.
I'm going to deduct my mountaineering costs for the year as continuing education and see if that flies with the IRS.
Wooo hoooo... Big tax return this year!!!

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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby covfrrider » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:49 pm

cheeseburglar wrote:Follow this logic, if you will:
Sports are on ESPN. I've only ever seen mountaineering on Discovery, TLC, documentary channels, and the occasional Monty Python episode. Therefore, mountaineering must be educational. Continuing education and college is a tax deduction, I think.
I'm going to deduct my mountaineering costs for the year as continuing education and see if that flies with the IRS.
Wooo hoooo... Big tax return this year!!!


Hey, pull a daschlegeitner and just "forget" to pay your taxes... no big deal, the precedent has been set. ;)

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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby jrbren_vt » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:00 pm

ESPN also airs video game competitions. I have seen televised "John Madden Football" where they literally show two guys sitting on a sofa playing each other in a video game. At least they cut into the screen so you can see the virtual players running around around on their screen.

I do not think I have ever seen marathon running races on ESPN either. Those are usually on the outdoor network or vs. I think. I can't see how those would not be sports.
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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby Tory Wells » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:08 pm

jrbren_vt wrote:ESPN also airs video game competitions. I have seen televised "John Madden Football" where they literally show two guys sitting on a sofa playing each other in a video game. At least they cut into the screen so you can see the virtual players running around around on their screen.

I do not think I have ever seen marathon running races on ESPN either. Those are usually on the outdoor network or vs. I think. I can't see how those would not be sports.

Nor bike racing. If you want to see Lance Armstrong on ESPN, you'd have a better bet seeing him on the commercials than to anything actually related to the Tour de France. On Sportscenter, they will maybe show the last 3 seconds of the race and then a shot of the winner on the podium with the cute podium girls.
"Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, am I." -David Gilmour, Pink Floyd

"We knocked the bastard off." Hillary, 1953
"It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves." Hillary, 2003
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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby mountaingoat-G » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:41 pm

lanternerouge08 wrote: Personally, I'd prefer to see our sport remain under the radar. ....


This is an excelent, and often missed point. Mountain biking lost it's "under-the-radar" status as well as snowboarding and both sports have gone somewhat mainstream. The effects, at least with mountain biking, are trail conflict, crowds, and closures. These sports all have the ability to offer their rewards without the need for attention or validation from the general public. Under-the-Radar is a great place to be. FWIW, I feel that mountaineering in a sport, albeit an unconventional one.

On a somewhat related point, I have always disliked the term "conquered" when used to describe a mountain that was just climbed. For me, I don't consider that I have conquered any of the mountains that I have climbed, nor would I want to. Maybe I conquered some limitation within myself, but not the mountain...

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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby TylerStorm » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Aaron McAdams wrote:In Defiance of "the Edge" by Aaron McAdams


The mountain climber achieves a momentous feat and bellows, "Conquest at last!" A great moment of satisfaction has been reached. Returning to camp from a great adrenal blitz, the climber moves to celebrate the day and looks back at the mountain with new admiration, inspiration, and memories. One very small aspect of the mountain was made accessible by the gatekeeper, Mother Nature, and some of the mystery of that specific route has now been removed.

Through our pursuit of adrenal achievement, we mountaineers seek to surpass the average. Disregarding predictability and comfort, we aspire to attain the unattainable. To succeed on any ascent, when climbing a big-wall route, or when exploring unfamiliar wilderness, an adrenal explorer seems to borrow unknown forces from his or her spirit to surpass The Edge.

No concrete explanation of The Edge exists; however, the abstract knowledge appears when one surpasses its threshold. When we approach this fine line via our adrenal quests, the sense of risk is near, and, naturally, fear arises. At that moment, we know that we cannot manage on the easy-go, half-do mentality. As the outspoken mountaineer and training advocate Mark Twight put it, this is when we must "ascend above mediocrity."


In the most challenging of circumstances, when tapping into all our inner forces, motivation, training, and zeal, we often reach a point of wondering if we've come all that way only to discover that what we really sought was that which we'd so aggressively left behind. There are many names for this state of mind, one being the "death march." In such states, we must recover our mind's focus, chasing away doubts, replacing them with inner tenacity, trust in our training and experience, and focus on our absolute inner drive. What takes our minds away for those short moments varies, but has much to do with the contrast of our home-life routines. As opposed to most mistakes made in the routine of life, our mistakes on the mountain are acutely serious…and that fact rests heavy on our minds when approaching The Edge.

It is "self against the self," long before the involvement of any team dynamics. More often than not, upon our failure to reach our goals — finding ourselves locked down by ailment, bad weather, or otherwise bad luck — there is nothing to do but breathe, sleep, fiddle with gear, babble, or simply stare at your trail-soiled companion. You either find your soul in rallying the grit and fortitude for a second attempt, or terminate the endeavour altogether.

Our dreams are key to our adrenal adventures — picturing oneself on a challenging summit, overlooking a breathtaking ridge while hanging by a cold and sharp tool, on the morning after the achievement, soaking in the view of a sunlit cloud floor below. To those who understand the allure of the dangerous, and the powers of nature, dreams are our torture when trapped in our home or office setting. This much I've learned.


Those dreams attach themselves to experiences, of sorts. There is a particularly ironic satisfaction to be derived from the upward struggles of day-to-day life as we dream of risk, and risk "is the knife that pares away life's trivia..." as Twight composes it. We dream of facing the unattainable, and attaining the absolute simplicity on the mountain. That's what we love. When climbing, the mind becomes free from confusions and we have focus. Vision becomes sharper, the audible things richer, and we're filled with the deep, powerful presence of life. So dreams take us to initiative; we learn by application, and individual spirit takes us toward resoluteness…and eventually over the threshold of The Edge.

It is perhaps a common mistake of many adventurers to recount their most difficult mountain encounters as definitive and perceivable. Does one ever truly come to know "the mountain," when in reality it is the gatekeeper we are so avidly coming to know? Nature surrounds us, and we are its guests when on our adrenal missions. While on our undertakings to defy The Edge, if we were all in a state of total reality each time we "borrowed" a summit, we would halt in humility. To be in defiance of The Edge means just this — that we recognize the mountain as unconquerable in its essence, but in our pursuits to fulfill our adrenal appetites (and our desires to advance the human spirit), we are in fact only conquering…ourselves.

Source:
http://www.summitpost.org/article/38411 ... dge-i.html

I have never heard football or baseball players describe their beloved "sports" like that! I'm not saying that mountaineering is better, but somehow I have a hard time trying to compare a sport like football with its concrete rules to mountaineering. By definition, I absolutely think mountaineering is a sport. Climbing is not my sport. It is my life! +1 on Boukreev's quote too! I could go on and on about this, however, it seems to that we are all doing this in vain. We all have experienced mountaineering in its essence. We are all familiar with that certain feeling of transcendence, so why argue what we so absolutely know to be true! People who are willing to publicly deny mountaineering as being a sport are merely proclaiming their ignorance!
Last edited by TylerStorm on Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby larkinrx2 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:02 pm

grizz wrote:Hmm, I never knew steroids gave athletes better eye to hand coordination.

I split 10 cords of wood with an 8lb maul and I can’t climb any faster. Puzzling???



if you notice i never mentioned anything about hand/eye coordination, just that when they do hit it they go for slugging it out of the park rather than getting a hit and making it 1 or 2 bases
if you want using a maul to help you get up a mtn i suggest walking on your hands, after a few rounds with the wood pile im sure you would see improvement


larkinrx2 wrote:just averaging out the poke and hope and they just get it more often then not. in my book the ones with the doubles and triples are the better players since they are trying to play the game rather than win with every swing and usually will do the sacrafice to position the team rather than die swinging for the glory
edit: oh, and to answer your question its the steroids and HcG!!!! which i dont think many of us MTN climbers use?
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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby susanjoypaul » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:45 pm

centrifuge wrote:aside from that, there are only 2 people who's opinions about mountaineering count in my world, my wife and my mom... not people who are more concerned with how much money they can squeeze out of inflated contracts than the welfare of their own sports.


That’s an excellent point. After all, how many “athletes” would continue to play every week if they weren’t getting paid big bucks to do it? That’s not a sport, that’s a job.

And after the pay checks stop, they don’t keep playing – they just move on to their next job: making Nutrisystem commercials about how fat they got after they stopped getting paid to play ball. And they’re too stupid to figure out how to lose all the fat – so they have to pay someone else to deliver ready-made meals to their doorsteps. Maybe they should just get their fat asses back out on the field and start throwing the ball around again. That’s would they would do, if they loved it - if it was their sport. But it’s not – it’s their job.

Here’s the difference: nobody pays us to climb – in fact, many of us invest a large part of our own incomes to it. And we’ll continue to do it, till we’re broke, and broken down, and so wrinkled and smelly that no one else wants to climb with us.

If Gerry Roach, or Jennifer Roach, or Spencer Swanger, or Ed Viesturs, or Carlos Corsolio, or Phil Ershler, or even The Great Camilo, ever does a Nutrisystem ad, I will eat my freaking words.

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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby RoanMtnMan » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:44 pm

Stop! Anything that is a choice and challenges a person mentally and physically is a sport. It doesn't matter if the opponent is another person, a geographical hazard, or one's self. Many of the top athletes in mountain sports participated in the more commonly recognized sports at a high level before moving to the mountain arena. They chose this arena for a reason.
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Re: Mountaineering controversy

Postby susanjoypaul » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:42 am

RoanMtnMan wrote:Stop! "

collaborate and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
Will it ever stop yo I don't know
Turn off the lights and I'll glow

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