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Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:59 am
by ThuChad
MountainMedic wrote:Dunno where you're getting your mileage quotes from - maybe it's right, but looks off to me. Doing all three in one day is pretty miserable, but doable. I would highly recommend going Kilpacker-Diente-Traverse-Mt. Wilson-RoA Saddle-Wilson Peak-RoA TH. The descent off of Mt. Wilson is the worst part, but once you're down you get a nice rest before the class 3 on Wilson Peak. I did this last summer and it wound up being an 18 mile, 7500 vert, 15 hour slogfest. Fortunately, Fisching was kind enough to descend back to Kilpacker from South Wilson and pick me up at RoA...
Greg and I thought the traverse wasn't terrible, although Diente to Mt. Wilson is certainly the way to go. On the Mt. Wilson side of the traverse there's a drop into a very short but very loose gully, with decent handholds on the side. Much easier to ascend than descend. Also, the summit block of Mt. Wilson (if coming from the traverse and not going around to the standard) has two cruxes, a 4 and a 5. When Greg and I did it there was a team roped up on the 4, so we opted to do the 5. An easy maneuver, but stupid exposed.
If your 18 mile and 7500 vert is correct for a single push then that's enough for me to break it up into two days.
My new calculations:
ROA TH --> WP 4.5 miles
WP --> MW 4.5 miles
MW --> EL D 1 mile
El D --> KP TH 6 miles
Total: 16 miles?
jeremycu wrote:We did Option A last weekend. It worked fine. El Diente and the traverse were not as bad as their reputation, IMHO. We did EL-MW on day one and did WP on day two. We wanted the less tired legs on the traverse. Coming down MW wasn't that bad. A couple of spots were pretty loose but just took it slow. It's a big day for all 3.
Did you come off the backside(south) of MW?
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:22 am
by jeremycu
ThuChad wrote:MountainMedic wrote:
jeremycu wrote:We did Option A last weekend. It worked fine. El Diente and the traverse were not as bad as their reputation, IMHO. We did EL-MW on day one and did WP on day two. We wanted the less tired legs on the traverse. Coming down MW wasn't that bad. A couple of spots were pretty loose but just took it slow. It's a big day for all 3.
Did you come off the backside(south) of MW?
Yes. A short section was pretty loose then we got onto a snow field and that helped.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:35 am
by TravelingMatt
Wow, no love for the north buttress route on El Diente?
I don't think there's anything that can be called an easy way up Mt. W or El D, but North Buttress was mostly stable and pretty agreeable. I got off-route a little towards the top and probably did more Class 4ing than necessary but that was because I had left the directions in the car. Nothing on the North Buttress route is harder than anything on the traverse.
Another advantage to camping at Navajo is added flexibility, say to do Wilson Peak or Gladstone from the same camp. Also the approach to Navajo is pretty versus the endless ocean of scree on the ROA approach.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:51 am
by benners
The easiest and safest way to do ED sans snow is to head up the South Slopes from Kilpacker, hands down. The easiest/safest way to do MW makes for more of a debate, but doing it via the traverse w/ a descent back into Kilpacker is as good an option as any. Given all of this, option A would be the easiest/safest way to attack these peaks overall IMO, specially since there's now good/legal access to hit WP from Silver Pick. If you decide on doing all 3 in a single day and have the option of setting up a shuttle, I'd say ED South Slopes from Kilpacker -> traverse to Wilson -> drop into Navajo and climb WP -> out ROA would be the easiest/safest way to go about it. Downside is in the event of a storm you still have to gain the 13k saddle to get to your stashed vehicle, but you could always bail off MW back into Kilpacker or descend out Navajo and link back to Kilpacker TH in the event of an early storm, so you'd have multiple bail options this way.
MonGoose wrote:My understanding is that everyone does the traverse El Diente --> Mount Wilson, but I can't remember why. Can someone fill me in?
More upclimbing than downclimbing from ED to MW and easier to descend MW than ED.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:00 pm
by djkest
jeremycu wrote:We did Option A last weekend. It worked fine. El Diente and the traverse were not as bad as their reputation, IMHO. We did EL-MW on day one and did WP on day two. We wanted the less tired legs on the traverse. Coming down MW wasn't that bad. A couple of spots were pretty loose but just took it slow. It's a big day for all 3.
This is what we are planning, although I haven't done it yet, so I can't tell you how good it will be.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:30 pm
by ed20320
Personally, i don't know why anyone in their right for left mind would climb El D or Mount Wilson from Navajo Basin. the route looks absolutely miserable. We climbed El D from Kilpacker, came off the summit about 600 feet, did the lower traverse and summited Mount Wilson all in a day. longer day mind you, but very doable. then you you can pick ROA or Navajo for Wilson Peak.
Pick your poison and then follow your north arrow.
Ed
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:34 pm
by TravelingMatt
ed20320 wrote:Personally, i don't know why anyone in their right for left mind would climb El D or Mount Wilson from Navajo Basin.
JFK's explanation for why we went to the moon would come to mind, if I had any idea what mind I was in.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:41 pm
by ThuChad
ed20320 wrote:Personally, i don't know why anyone in their right for left mind would climb El D or Mount Wilson from Navajo Basin. the route looks absolutely miserable. We climbed El D from Kilpacker, came off the summit about 600 feet, did the lower traverse and summited Mount Wilson all in a day. longer day mind you, but very doable. then you you can pick ROA or Navajo for Wilson Peak.
Pick your poison and then follow your north arrow.
Ed
Thanks Ed. I've been studying this TR as a traverse backup plan. I'm confident in my climbing ability but may take the lower traverse depending on precip and the number of people on the mountain.
http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/triprepor ... ki=Include" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:42 pm
by Presto
by ed20320 ยป Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:30 pm
Personally, i don't know why anyone in their right for left mind would climb El D or Mount Wilson from Navajo Basin. the route looks absolutely miserable. We climbed El D from Kilpacker, came off the summit about 600 feet, did the lower traverse and summited Mount Wilson all in a day. longer day mind you, but very doable. then you you can pick ROA or Navajo for Wilson Peak.
Pick your poison and then follow your north arrow.
I know, for a lot of people, time begins when your life begins.
However, "back in the day", that was indeed the standard route (as outlined in the Borneman and Lampert 14'ers guidebook which was "the book of choice" for most people climbing 14ers at the time). To say it was a terrifying descent down from El Diente to Navajo Lake in that bowling alley of a route is an understatement. Rocks the size of refrigerators moved when no one was near them. Descending El Diente into Kilpacker is much more pleasant (to say the least). I would also add, that for the most part, staying high and on top of ridges is less hazardous with traverses. Happy trails!
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:47 pm
by Jim Davies
jeremycu wrote:El Diente and the traverse were not as bad as their reputation, IMHO.
They lived up to their rep on Sunday, just ask dubsho3000:
http://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A lot of people get injured or killed on these routes, so don't downplay them too much.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:58 pm
by jeremycu
Jim Davies wrote:jeremycu wrote:El Diente and the traverse were not as bad as their reputation, IMHO.
They lived up to their rep on Sunday, just ask dubsho3000:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40310
A lot of people get injured or killed on these routes, so don't downplay them too much.
Fair enough. It was better than I imagined. That is all.
Re: Wilson Group Dilemma
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:14 pm
by Judge K
Emcee smith has an excellent TR from our climb there in August 2010. it is under El Diente & Mount Wilson titled "Long Day BUt Quickish on the Traverse". It was challenging but not as horrible as some make it out to be. At least not in 2010.
Judge K.