Should I trade in my Tacoma?

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Alpine
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby Alpine » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:15 pm

TallGrass wrote:You could explore "hypermiling" with your Tacoma such as .... seeing if they make a taller rear end (gear ratio),



Can we go back to this one for a minute? I have not done very much homework on this so I may well be wrong, but I do wonder about it.

On the surface this makes sense since the tires would be rotating less and thus the engine using less gas, for the same miles driven. However, isnt there more to it? Primarily, the idea that engines (actually not only the engine but the entire drivetrain and even the overall vehicle itself) are tuned as a system - generally to make best use of the engines torque curve. So that if you changed the gearing to a numerically lower number it is possible that the engine is actually becoming less efficient and instead using more gasoline rather than less?

I have a personal example of this - whether or not this example proves anything or is just one example under very specific conditions or not, I dont know, but empirically it seems to make sense: My last Jeep was lifted and running on 33 inch tires (the stock tires were maybe 29 inches or so) but not re-geared. Anyway, the times I got the best gas mileage was when I was going up mountain passes in 2nd gear. ie better MPG when the engine was running at a higher RPM. My explanation is that the engine was operating closer to its peak torque at this higher RPM and thus more efficient.

Maybe the idea of a re-gearing would work, but only as long as if it didn't push the engine too far outside its torque band.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby djkest » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:30 pm

I recently test drove a 2013 Outback with a 6-speed manual. Really, really liked it. It looked like there was room in the back to sleep but I didn't personally lay down in there.

Your mileage will be 8-10 mpg more than what you can manage with your Tacoma, I'd guess. Pretty good in the snow and not too bad offroad- within reason. It won't be a tacoma on the worse of roads, obviously.

There is supposed to be a deisel verson coming out that gets even better mileage. Not sure if that is actually going to happen though.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby lordhelmut » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:43 pm

Abe - this is nonsense, enjoy your Taco!

Remember this - just because someone shops at Whole Foods, drives a Prius, drinks Nonfat Chai Soy Latte's, doesn't eat meat, wears Patagonia (and lets everyone know its recycled) or Tele-ski, doesn't mean their s**t doesn't stink.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby leggaj5 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:57 pm

lordhelmut wrote:Abe - this is nonsense, enjoy your Taco!

Remember this - just because someone shops at Whole Foods, drives a Prius, drinks Nonfat Chai Soy Latte's, doesn't eat meat, wears Patagonia (and lets everyone know its recycled) or Tele-ski, doesn't mean their s**t doesn't stink.



In fact, it probably smells a lot worse.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby bergsteigen » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:02 pm

Keep your Tacoma! I love mine ('02), and will keep it till it dies. Same with my newly acquired '97 Subi Outback (saving the populace of WNY from my demented grandma's driving). Amazingly they get about the same gas mileage, with the Subi getting about 3-5mpg more on average. But the Subi has crap for clearance, and will only be a winter vehicle.

I also walk to work, so my vehicles sit during the week. If you get a Prius, then what are you really saving, if you are only driving on the weekends to trailheads anyway? You'll have to park miles away, since it has no clearance. Plus have you thought about what goes into those batteries? Those are not recyclable and contain rare earth metals acquired in war torn 3rd world countries. Plus you have to use electricity from coal burning plants and other sources of less than ideal nonrenewable nature. I almost think electric cars are currently more wasteful and less ecologically minded than keeping an old vehicle running. But that's my opinion!

OR sell your vehicle, go car-less and beg rides from friends. See how well that works, or not...
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby lordhelmut » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:15 pm

Also - a little more constructive post.

I own a 2006 Subaru Impreza "Outback Sport" (not a WRX). I've made it to Price, Utah on 1 tank from Denver. It was reaching new levels of "E" I never knew existed. That's 415 miles on a 15.9 gallon tank, which comes out to 26 mpg's. Just a FYI. As some have said before, the Impreza's aren't known for their interior space either.

Also want to add a +1 to the new 6-speed Outback's, as they seem to be everything you'd look for in an Impreza, times 2.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby Mark A Steiner » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:10 pm

Fletch's detailed Wicki response nails down a few particulars not generally known among Prius environmentalists. I'm not condemning the car, but the environment takes quite a hit (mining and chemical responses in manufacturing) to make C02 and hydrocarbons pale in comparison.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology may be a better choice ... thoughts?
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby mtnfiend » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:49 pm

Fletch wrote:I'm no chemist
Fletch, I think you meant metallurgist. :wink:

Environmentalism aside for a second, economically speaking you will never recoup the added cost of the hybrid (versus a non-hybrid) with gas savings over the life of the vehicle, especially with how little you drive.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby dereferenced » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:17 pm

The efficiency of a Prius is a lot higher than other sedans for city driving (because of the regenerative braking, electric motor efficiency, etc.), but on the highway, I think there's nothing that special about it, it's still a gas engine, it's just a little lighter and more streamlined. I've measured up to 44 mpg on highways in a Civic. So, you could easily buy a used 2wd car and get better highway mileage without worrying about the nuances of battery production.

Can't say that my Civic has made it to many rough trailheads. But, you want to be an ultrarunner, so what's a few more miles on every approach?
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby climbingaggie03 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:28 pm

I know this is kind of out of left field, but have you considered a motorcycle? My bike gets 55-60mpg, you could get something like the Kawasaki KLR 650, that will get you to any trail head you want and probably still get at least 50 mpg. You can find one used for probably 3 grand or so. You'd probably drive your truck even less but you'd still have it if you need it. When the weather's nice you can ride the bike and get double the mileage of your truck
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby pseudoghost » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:30 pm

Can we go back to this one for a minute? I have not done very much homework on this so I may well be wrong, but I do wonder about it.

On the surface this makes sense since the tires would be rotating less and thus the engine using less gas, for the same miles driven. However, isnt there more to it? Primarily, the idea that engines (actually not only the engine but the entire drivetrain and even the overall vehicle itself) are tuned as a system - generally to make best use of the engines torque curve. So that if you changed the gearing to a numerically lower number it is possible that the engine is actually becoming less efficient and instead using more gasoline rather than less?

I have a personal example of this - whether or not this example proves anything or is just one example under very specific conditions or not, I dont know, but empirically it seems to make sense: My last Jeep was lifted and running on 33 inch tires (the stock tires were maybe 29 inches or so) but not re-geared. Anyway, the times I got the best gas mileage was when I was going up mountain passes in 2nd gear. ie better MPG when the engine was running at a higher RPM. My explanation is that the engine was operating closer to its peak torque at this higher RPM and thus more efficient.

Maybe the idea of a re-gearing would work, but only as long as if it didn't push the engine too far outside its torque band.


My WAG is that it was a combination of the fact that you were travelling at slower speeds; engines are typically much more efficient at slower speeds because of air resistance (exacerbated by you lifting the car), and that the engine was running lean at high altitude. Most engines can run lean and get a significant improvement in performance at the cost of increased emissions and increased operating temperatures.
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Re: Should I trade in my Tacoma?

Postby climbingaggie03 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:55 pm

pseudoghost wrote:My WAG is that it was a combination of the fact that you were travelling at slower speeds; engines are typically much more efficient at slower speeds because of air resistance (exacerbated by you lifting the car), and that the engine was running lean at high altitude. Most engines can run lean and get a significant improvement in performance at the cost of increased emissions and increased operating temperatures.


Are you sure that an engine running lean would have increased emissions? I would think that less fuel going into the cylinders on each stroke would mean less coming out of the exhaust. I think that in the 80's they found that they could improve emissions by leaning out the mixtures, but maybe I'm remembering that wrong.

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