Difficult Situation With a Newbie

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Jim Davies
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby Jim Davies » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:15 am

For some reason I was just reminded of Maurice Wilson. Maybe the name "Wilson" plus beer is causing your buddy's delusions. Or maybe it's just a Y chromosome thing.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
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globreal
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby globreal » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:41 am

susanjoypaul wrote:As a mother of two boys, I can tell you that the more you try to dissuade him, the greater his resolve will grow to prove you wrong. I would encourage him emphatically to follow through with his plans.

In fact, you should involve yourself as much as possible. Start asking him questions, like:

1) How many miles is it up to the lake?
2) How much does your pack weigh with all that camping gear in it?
3) What kind of 4-season tent are you bringing?
4) Is your bag a sub-zero? How cold does it get up there at night?
5) How much fuel are you bringing to melt water?
6) What route are you taking? Is that where all those massive boulders slid earlier this year?
7) What's the avalanche danger like up there right now?

These are valid questions, not scare tactics.


I love Susan's reverse psychology in asking questions. Here are some more off the top of my head:
8 ) How are you going prevent your water from freezing?
9) How much longer will it take you hiking in snow with snowshoes when carrying a heavy overnight backpack?
10) How will you navigate (find your way out) if you get caught in "whiteout" winter conditions?
11) What will you do if you get injured and you CAN'T hike out like slimshady's recent ordeal:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37839
How will you get help?
12) And about those brass balls you mentioned, will they truly make up for your "zero knowledge of mountaineering skills?"
According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
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Doug Shaw
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby Doug Shaw » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:51 am

globreal wrote:12) And about those brass balls you mentioned, will they truly make up for your "zero knowledge of mountaineering skills?"


Brass balls would seem like a terrible thing to carry on a winter climb. You think cotton conducts heat away from you quickly?
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12ersRule
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby 12ersRule » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:56 am

My only advice is that he should wait 17 days so he could potentially collect a snowflake.
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby moneymike » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:33 pm

madbuck wrote:He may lose interest if it turns out nobody else is impressed.


I've found that pointing to a picture of the Coors mountain in a bar and telling the pretty girl next to me "I skied that" can be a good conversation starter. It's a damn sexy mountain.

I say go for it! Dying is a small price to pay for looking cool 8)
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby RoanMtnMan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:27 pm

Of course on the flip side of the coin I was 19, and had never been to 14,000ft in my life, when I told my father I was flying to WA to climb Rainier without a guide, but with an equally naive buddy and then I was flying to Nepal solo when I graduated college (on my own dime), and then going to Alaska to hitchhike for 2 months, and then leading an expedition up Denali at age 24. He was totally supportive, but repeated all the sound advice he could muster. All ill-advised adventures, but it was what I wanted at the time. All trips were completed without harm, a lot of luck, experience gained, and fueled a lifetime passion for the mountains. So it is hard to pass judgement for me. This guy could end up being on the sharp end of your rope one day. Just a thought.
Always follow the 7 P's. Proper Planning & Preparation, Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.

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JDip
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby JDip » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:06 pm

Dex wrote:
JDip wrote:Hey the kid's either got a (sic) dream or a (sic) death wish.



(sick) or (sic) ?

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/what-does-sic-mean/


Either or, take your pick.
I want to know the thoughts of God. All the rest are details. -Albert Einstein

It's not the height of the mountain that makes it great, it is the mountain itself. -J.D.
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby ulvetano » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:12 pm

With existing (non) snowpack, he'll be perfectly fine. I'd say go for it.
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby TallGrass » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:12 pm

susanjoypaul wrote:In fact, you should involve yourself as much as possible. Start asking him questions, like: 1) How many miles is it up to the lake? 2) How much does your pack weigh...

Might even ask how he's going to cross the all the beaver ponds.

He's looking to overcome obstacles and you're making yourself another one, thus he'll...
How stable is trying to best the newb who knows he'll best the mountain?
Who's to say he's not the next Winter Cavedog? Supporter or dream-dasher?

SJP, conversely, is approaching from the inferior or peer-to-peer. If he's not on the Cavedog end of the bell curve, the approach may turn him back, but hopefully he'll have enough gas to hike back. I've gotten the "silent doubtful eye" or can't-do-it's from others, but I tend to ask them why and then make sure I address it in my plans. Go gear shopping with him (stuff is cheap, right?). Hike up Pikes together. Do an overnight prep trip with him where you camp outside your car(s) at a high, cold, windy pass. You do your thing and let him do his. Hell, he may know a trick you can steal!

I prefer to just ask questions, like when someone says they "layed it down" to avoid hitting something with their motorcycle. Oh, so what did you physically do to lowside it without highsiding? Which controls did you use? Avoid? Can you demonstrate? You don't know? You don't remember? How can one tell the difference between choosing to lay 'er down and just losing control then crashing? [BTW, I know how to, and also why it is suboptimal for decelerating.]

I say if you love him,
let him go.
If the mountain loves you,
it'll give him back.
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:
"A few hours' mountain climbing make of a rogue and a saint two fairly equal creatures.
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
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Jim Davies
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby Jim Davies » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:23 pm

The mountain doesn't love you.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
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susanjoypaul
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby susanjoypaul » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:10 am

TallGrass wrote:
susanjoypaul wrote:In fact, you should involve yourself as much as possible. Start asking him questions, like: 1) How many miles is it up to the lake? 2) How much does your pack weigh...

Might even ask how he's going to cross the all the beaver ponds.

He's looking to overcome obstacles and you're making yourself another one, thus he'll...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but I am most definitely not trying to be "another obstacle" - just trying to encourage a little more thought and preparation by asking questions. Discovering the answers serves to educate, and that leads to making better decisions.

This approach generally leads to one of three outcomes:
(1) the person learns more about the potential obstacles, prepares for them, and is successful in his quest, OR
(2) he learns more about the potential obstacles and concludes that they require further investigation and preparation (delaying the quest) OR
(3) he determines that the obstacles are insurmountable, in which case the quest is abandoned.

I would never discourage anyone from chasing their dreams, but I still believe that - in the quest for success in reaching them - brains beats bravado every time.
peter303
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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby peter303 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:13 am

Buy some life insurance on him and make yourself a beneficiary.

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