Please stay on the trail.

FAQ and threads for those just starting to hike the Colorado 14ers.
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tlongpine
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby tlongpine » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:27 am

DeucesWild wrote:Although I haven't read every post, I don't recall any mention made of: weight = mass x acceleration

The bike isn't sitting still.


THIS IS SO WRONG IT HURTS.

Mass x Acceleration = FORCE.

(of course, I might have missed any/all sarcasm)
I am unable to walk away from the mountain without climbing it. An unclimbed mountain tugs at my consciousness with the eternal weight of time itself. Until I've pressed my face into it's alpine winds, hugged it's ancient granite walls, and put it's weathered summit beneath my heal I'm unable to resist it's attraction.Knowing nature gives the mountain more time than she gives us adds urgency to the obsession. As has been said before; the mountain doesn't care.

It can wait forever. I cannot.
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DeucesWild
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby DeucesWild » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:33 am

tlongpine wrote:
DeucesWild wrote:Although I haven't read every post, I don't recall any mention made of: weight = mass x acceleration

The bike isn't sitting still.


THIS IS SO WRONG IT HURTS.

Mass x Acceleration = FORCE.


wildlobo71 wrote:
HikerGuy wrote:I think the more serious concern is not some braided trail on a mountain, but the lack of science education in this country.


:lol: May the FORCE be with you, Deuce.


I always try to defer to the experts among us. In this case, I'm not a physician so I'll have to apply Mensa intuitive reasoning and get back to you both, Wildbobo and LooongPine.
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Jim Davies
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby Jim Davies » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:26 am

cheeseburglar wrote:After 9 of us stormed Fortress Peak on Saturday, which is some obscure 13er hill somewhere in the wilderness, there should be a trail.
Please follow it.

I've heard it takes 10 hikers to create a social trail. Not sure how many bikers.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
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crossfitter
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby crossfitter » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:44 am

tlongpine wrote:
DeucesWild wrote:Although I haven't read every post, I don't recall any mention made of: weight = mass x acceleration

The bike isn't sitting still.


THIS IS SO WRONG IT HURTS.

Mass x Acceleration = FORCE.

(of course, I might have missed any/all sarcasm)


It's actually not wrong at all. Weight is simply force due to gravity, and the equation deuces posted is perfectly accurate (if somewhat simplified).
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby YooperJonKornely » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:49 am

Does Tebow pushing a huge tire above treeline cause a trail???
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DeucesWild
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby DeucesWild » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:58 am

crossfitter wrote:It's actually not wrong at all. Weight is simply force due to gravity, and the equation deuces posted is perfectly accurate (if somewhat simplified).


Thanks, Crossfitta.

I am a very simple Mensan.

I really like to learn, so another question for the Physicians among us:

The point I find interesting, is that acceleration, or in this case mostly deceleration, loads the front tire of the bike disproportionately. So, in my simple mind, this greater FORCE, applied over a smaller area (the front tire) coupled with excessive shear (mentioned by Crossfitta) means there is a lot of destructive force applied to the tundra. Seemingly different in some way from the way force is applied by a hiker at least in terms of scale.

Not that I have an issue with bikers.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Funny pic of Tebow. I like Tebow even though he's religulous. John Elway is currently the biggest problem with Denver Broncos football. That dude's massive ego needs to be retired.
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby mtgirl » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:08 am

jofkorn1037 wrote:Does Tebow pushing a huge tire above treeline cause a trail???



What tire ? I fail to see a tire in that photo. :-"
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby wildlobo71 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:27 am

DeucesWild wrote:
I am a very simple Mensan.


If I only had a dollar for every claimed MENSA member on this site over the years... Seems to me the real MENSA members I've ever met don't really brag about it; they just are. I'll give you the benefit of not knowing you but for the number of people who have claimed MENSA on this site versus the overall 14er population, this group of climbers is a worldwide statistical anomaly.

And normal force IS definitely equal to the weight of an object, before movement (acceleration) is applied; then they are no longer equal.

Just stay on the trail people, unless there is no trail and then use your best judgment as to the path towards your destination.
You've never really stopped even if you feel like you have.
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DeucesWild
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby DeucesWild » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:35 am

wildlobo71 wrote:before movement (acceleration) is applied


Isn't a bike moving when used as intended? I think my comment/question is a fair one. I like learning new stuff after all. I wouldn't want to remain static, would I?

Didn't mean to get your Mensa up, Bill. I've only been a member for a short time and sometimes forget the rules. Sorry.
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby madbuck » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:52 am

DeucesWild wrote:
wildlobo71 wrote:before movement (acceleration) is applied


Isn't a bike moving when used as intended? I think my comment/question is a fair one. I like learning new stuff after all. I wouldn't want to remain static, would I?

Didn't mean to get your Mensa up, Bill. I've only been a member for a short time and sometimes forget the rules. Sorry.


Well the discussion is all over the place anyway, from the initial "stay on the trail" discussion to the static PSI discussion and ground pressure. When it comes to real trail damage, sure, practical factors like the way bikes are ridden or braked or pushed uphill by average versus skilled vs. unskilled riders comes into play...as does the sheer number of hikers vs. cyclists...but I thought we were focused on minutiae.

As such, DeucesWild, I think a better question -- and all of its implications -- would be,
"Does a woman in high heels or an elephant impart more ground pressure?"

Indeed, hiking in high heels seems to be about the the worst trail sin imaginable...
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby smoove » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:57 am

DeucesWild wrote:
wildlobo71 wrote:before movement (acceleration) is applied


Didn't mean to get your Mensa up, Bill. I've only been a member for a short time and sometimes forget the rules. Sorry.


The first rule of Mensa Club is: You do not talk about Mensa Club.
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Re: Please stay on the trail.

Postby DeucesWild » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:00 am

madbuck wrote:As such, DeucesWild, I think a better question -- and all of its implications -- would be,
"Does a woman in high heels or an elephant impart more ground pressure?"


Now, that's a question with real merit. I like high heels a lot.
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