14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please

Are you okay with paying a user fee to access Colorado 14'ers?

Yes, for all 14'ers.
24
8%
Maybe, for certain areas.
40
14%
Maybe, but only if the fees were small.
33
12%
No, fees should generally not be charged to access these areas.
187
66%
 
Total votes: 284
SteveBonowski
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby SteveBonowski » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:25 pm

Shawnee Bob wrote: "You can have a discussion about fees, a policy issue, without going into red/blue, liberal/conservative........

I have to laugh a bit at that; in part because it is a true statement. When the Vail Pass Task Force was having its fee increase discussion 3-4 years ago, politics NEVER came into the discussion. We all looked; snowmobilers & non-motorized recreationists alike; at what our costs were then and what services were being provided by the fee. We considered how our costs were going up; the VPTF does own and maintain a snowcat for trail grooming. While none of us were happy to see an increase, we ultimately agreed that a modest fee increase was needed so we could continue to provide our users with the same level of services.

There were no liberals or conservatives in the room; just recreationists working on a common program and goal.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby oldschoolczar » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:28 pm

nfire wrote:
LtWitte wrote:
Shawnee Bob wrote:You can have a discussion about fees, a POLICY issue, without going into red/blue, liberal/conservative GOP/Dem crap. People are just tempted to run back to that framework because EVERYTHING is being politicized. And it's tiring.


What good is a POLICY discussion if you can't do anything about the policy? Who makes policy?...Congress

Therefore, any policy discussion must be of a political nature or what's the point?

STFU


=D>
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby SilverLynx » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:29 pm

nfire wrote:
coloradokevin wrote:
Turning it into a Liberal vs Conservative debate was NOT my intention, and is NOT the issue that I'd like this thread to focus on (we all know this forum is sharply divided on their voting preferences).

But, PLEASE lets keep a decent dialogue going about the fee situation itself. It is important, and it is an issue that many of us are concerned about, at least judging by the poll response in this thread.

=D>

i'd be in favor of a $10 fee just because i bet it would keep the crowds down a good bit. would be worth the small upgrade.

Hey, if you don't like crowds.... 8-[ 13ers! And you didn't hear that from me. :wink:
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby Scott P » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:29 pm

...............
Last edited by Scott P on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby Jim Davies » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:30 pm

Hungry Jack wrote:


LOL. "Where is Hayduke when you need him?"

Pretty much says it all.

Hayduke would probably slash everybody's tires at the Stevens Gulch trailhead, then dynamite the bridge at the Bakerville offramp. Probably not what most of us want.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby Hungry Jack » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:34 pm

We should be able to discuss this issue (14er fees) without getting into the sweeping generalizations of how each party might approach this issue. On the list of things that dominate our two-party discourse (I am being generous in describing what occurs in the media) on national issues, public recreation fees fall far, far down the list (even in the taxation debate, recreational user fees would amount to a fraction of a percentage of an infinitesimal amount of a drop in the bucket of what our government takes and spends).

As we have seen here, one's position on paying user fees to offset the cost of caring for public lands does not all along party lines, at least in this small sample. Nor is this notion a "big idea" in the policy spectrum. The big ideas in public recreation were brought forth by Aldo Leopold, Teddy Roosevelt, et al a long time ago. At best, it is an incremental policy that is more operational than fundamental.

So let us forget trying to analyze this issue through the over hyped, over simplified lens of our two-party system, which only serves to make us all dumber by casting false dichotomies on every stupid little issue that might emerge. I would bet that for most of us, our love of the outdoors weighs far more than our allegiance to any party. Let's leave the political baggage at home for a change.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby CHWitte » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:36 pm

Scott P wrote:Very seldom would I ever make a post like this about a person and I like 99.999% of people I've talked with/met regardless of their different politcal views.

In this case though, I think it appropriate. I'd just suggest to everyone to just not responding to any of LtWitte's posts. Some people aren't worth arguing or even talking with. If the moderators feel I'm out of line, they can delete my post.


Yeah, this is the American thing to do. Shun those you disagree with. =D> Are you kidding me? :lol:
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby 12ersRule » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:37 pm

Jim Davies wrote:
Hungry Jack wrote:


LOL. "Where is Hayduke when you need him?"

Pretty much says it all.

Hayduke would probably slash everybody's tires at the Stevens Gulch trailhead, then dynamite the bridge at the Bakerville offramp. Probably not what most of us want.


Yeah, I don't have as much free time as Hayduke.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby Derek » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:41 pm

**edit

Since this is turning into a political pi$$ match, I'm going to remove my 2 cents.
Last edited by Derek on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby CHWitte » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:41 pm

Hungry Jack wrote:We should be able to discuss this issue (14er fees) without getting into the sweeping generalizations of how each party might approach this issue. On the list of things that dominate our two-party discourse (I am being generous in describing what occurs in the media) on national issues, public recreation fees fall far, far down the list (even in the taxation debate, recreational user fees would amount to a fraction of a percentage of an infinitesimal amount of a drop in the bucket of what our government takes and spends).

As we have seen here, one's position on paying user fees to offset the cost of caring for public lands does not all along party lines, at least in this small sample. Nor is this notion a "big idea" in the policy spectrum. The big ideas in public recreation were brought forth by Aldo Leopold, Teddy Roosevelt, et al a long time ago. At best, it is an incremental policy that is more operational than fundamental.

So let us forget trying to analyze this issue through the over hyped, over simplified lens of our two-party system, which only serves to make us all dumber by casting false dichotomies on every stupid little issue that might emerge. I would bet that for most of us, our love of the outdoors weighs far more than our allegiance to any party. Let's leave the political baggage at home for a change.


Jack, I wish we could live in a country where everyone got along nicely and politics was just something people had fun with. However, in the current situation we live, politics affects your life. A lot of things are going to change in this country over the next 10 years and quite frankly, we need to make the right changes or we are going to have some major problems. The money my family takes in is important and to have to pay to do what I love in Colorado, is what I see as an unnecessary evil when there are other ways to address the issue. However, as I already stated, if policy is going to be changed or kept the same, it is going to come from Congress which is elected by us, through a very harsh political process.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby MrFrumpylane » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:43 pm

Typical.. I blame this whole mess on the CSU professor for conducting this research. (Just trying to gear up for football season, people!)

Go Buffs! 8)

And oh, for the record, I'm against the fees.
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Re: 14'er Climbing Fees Might Be Considered

Postby SilverLynx » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:47 pm

MrFrumpylane wrote:Typical.. I blame this whole mess on the CSU professor for conducting this research. (Just trying to gear up for football season, people!)

Go Buffs! 8)

And oh, for the record, I'm against the fees.

Any idea which CSU professor is doing this research? I may have taken a class with him/her.
We owe it to ourselves and to the next generation to conserve the environment so that we can bequeath our children a sustainable world that benefits all.
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