Stoves

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malcolml1
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Jet Boil Stoves

Postby malcolml1 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:50 am

BEWARE! BEWARE! bEWARE!

I used one at Snowmass Lake and it worked beautifully BUT when I returned to my car I found that the spare canister that I'd left on the back shelf in a plastic bag had blown up. Nasty mess.
And yes the fine print warns about leaving the canister in the sun, but who ever reads the fine print.
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Kojones
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Postby Kojones » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:07 pm

thebeave7 wrote:
Kojones wrote:It is also built for the cold, incorporating a revolutionary regulator that keeps constant heat/fuel pressure at cold temperatures and even when the fuel is getting low.

Kojones


Any idea how this "regulator" works to keep the fuel canister warm? From what I've read and seen the canister is still open to the enviro, thus should be susceptible to gas condensation and pressure loss. Granted I've seen very limited info about the stove, so would be interested in your take on how it limits the effects of the cold.

Eric


It does not keep the canister warm, obviously, because it is a regulator. It works for cold the same way it works when you are using up the fuel by keeping a consistent pressure. The mechanics are a bit technical for me.

A comparison... I own a top-of-the-line diving regulator that does the same thing better than most regulators. I use this example because I can physically experience the feel of how it works. It is just as easy to breath with a full tank as it is with a near-empty tank. This is the same in the cold... as I have done cold-water dives.

I wish I knew, but something tells me MSR is not willing to give up their secrets.

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Postby thebeave7 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:31 pm

Kojones wrote:A comparison... I own a top-of-the-line diving regulator that does the same thing better than most regulators. I use this example because I can physically experience the feel of how it works. It is just as easy to breath with a full tank as it is with a near-empty tank. This is the same in the cold... as I have done cold-water dives.

Kojones


I don't know if that's a good comparison. Pure oxygen vaporizes/condenses at -270F, I don't think you'll ever find temps that low in the water(granted pressure can alter this a little). I'm still very intrigued at what the technical aspects of their "regulator" mechanism is, guess I'll have to email cascade designs.
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Kojones
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Postby Kojones » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:39 pm

I'm guessing it is a series of springs, pinhole openings, and larger spaces... just like my pre-reg for diving. Probably can find the basics somewhere on the internet.

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Geof3
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Postby Geof3 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:23 pm

My favorite is my MSR XGK, burns anything... probably yak dung as well. Without doubt, bombproof and sounds like a jet turbine when cranking. Over all when it's on it ON... it's difficult to modulate the flame for a light simmer. But it's doable. I have an older one, not the cool new space capsule version. However, it's kind of a pain and takes up some significant space for fast N lite trips.

I just picked up a Jetboil late last season and love it. I've not had any issues that most stoves have at altitude and cold. It worked just dandy at the Boulder Field in late Sept... I think they sell extreme cold canisters, it seems I saw them somewhere. Also, piezo ignitors are basically crap anyway IMO... Get out a match. (you should always have these anyway) Fires right up. NO worries.

The thing I like best about the jet boil system is the containment. It makes firing up for a brew ice climbing or something very easy and convenient. It's light too for the full system.

The best super light stove is the pocket rocket. But, once you add all the extras it's not much lighter, if any, than the JB...
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Freeheeler
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Postby Freeheeler » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:45 am

[/quote]

I don't know if that's a good comparison. Pure oxygen vaporizes/condenses at -270F, I don't think you'll ever find temps that low in the water(granted pressure can alter this a little).[/quote]

Now, I'm not a diver, but I'm pretty sure that dive set-ups don't use 'pure oxygen'. Not only that, but it's not like we breathe pure oxygen which, as you likely know, is a highly corrosive substance. I'm not sure this adds anything to this debate other than you don't have to consider anything vaporizing at -270F.
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Geof3
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Postby Geof3 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:50 am

Freeheeler wrote:


I don't know if that's a good comparison. Pure oxygen vaporizes/condenses at -270F, I don't think you'll ever find temps that low in the water(granted pressure can alter this a little).[/quote]

Now, I'm not a diver, but I'm pretty sure that dive set-ups don't use 'pure oxygen'. Not only that, but it's not like we breathe pure oxygen which, as you likely know, is a highly corrosive substance. I'm not sure this adds anything to this debate other than you don't have to consider anything vaporizing at -270F.[/quote]

You are right. The tank is a nitrogen/oxygen mix. I don't recall off the top of my head what the ratios are... So the above is pretty moot.

I'm always amused by the "science" that attempts to get used in these types of discussions. Either the stove works, or it doesn't... Some are better some aren't. Find the one that suits your needs the best, or perhaps two, and you'll never have to worry about pressure variances, or otherwise.
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Kojones
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Postby Kojones » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:59 am

Standard scuba diving tanks are filled with comressed air. For divers who are qualified and have taken a class, they may use Nitrox which is a specific combination of gasses. Nitrox allows the diver to stay deeper longer.

And back to stoves...

I agree, use the stove that works. I will use the Reactor unless I discover it doesn't work. I was curious as to why I was challenged when I innocently brought up the regulator the stove uses. But I guess I could do my own independent field test of the two stoves and let you all know. (donations accepted for covering the cost of getting 2 stoves instead of 1).

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Freeheeler
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Postby Freeheeler » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:00 am

Geof3 wrote:


You are right. The tank is a nitrogen/oxygen mix. I don't recall off the top of my head what the ratios are... So the above is pretty moot.

I'm always amused by the "science" that attempts to get used in these types of discussions. Either the stove works, or it doesn't... Some are better some aren't. Find the one that suits your needs the best, or perhaps two, and you'll never have to worry about pressure variances, or otherwise.


EXACTLY! And thank you!
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skyerunner
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summary and tips

Postby skyerunner » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:30 pm

To summarize:
If you are going solo, in above 35F weather, and only need to boil water for cooking, and there is not much wind, it is spectacular.

If you want to do anything else, stick with the whisperlite, althought I've heard great things about the new MSR Reactor, which is similar to the JetBoil, but better in most respects

One tip on using it in snow/cold weather is to dip out some of the warm water from the first boil in the little black measuring cup, and set the canister in it. You notice an instant increase in pressure and performance.
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Postby mtnmaniac » Tue May 01, 2007 6:16 pm

Just sleep with your canister if there's any doubt it's too cold. Keep in tucked in your sleeping bag or jacket until your water is poured, and your lighter is ready. At that point, take it out, thread it on and light. In 0deg weather you have about 5 minutes of less than optimum burn time to get your water boiled. I camped on top of Longs in October. It was about 20deg in the morning. I warmed the canister and was able to boild 1 L just fine in around 5 min. This was with GigaPower fuel, a Brunton Crux stove, and Evernew Ti pot (thin, heat from flame goes right through to water).

P.S. Don't crank the jets. In non-science terms, this will cool the fuel quicker resulting in loss of flame quicker. You're only blowing heat out the side by cranking the thing anyway (unless you're using a very large pan I spose).
Are you hurt.... or injured?

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