1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

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JROSKA
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Postby JROSKA » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:12 am

Fisching wrote:So tell me, please, because I don't see it, what are you "learning" from this "analysis"?


I always try to learn from something like this by actually putting myself into the situation being described. Sometimes that's difficult, because maybe it's a type of terrain that I've never dealt with, but I usually feel like I can relate to a reasonable degree. As you and others have mentioned, there's no way to know what mitigating circumstances someone might face high up on a mountain. Most of the 14ers I've done have been very mundane experiences, but every now and then, a circumstance comes up where I've needed to make a very quick, and firm, decision. You never know when something like that will pop up, but you have to be ready for it when it happens.

Some people refer to looking into someone else's experience "armchair analyzing", that's fine. But I think that looking deeply into a first-hand account like this, putting myself up on that mountain, living the same experience, and analyzing how I would handle it, I do think that it's mental practice for the real thing. It's certainly not the waste of time that the term "armchair analyst" implies. In reading their account, I can tell exactly what my feelings would have been upon starting out, when I would have begun to become uneasy, and the precise point where I would have said "that's enough". And even though I couldn't really relate to camping on the rock ledge, analyzing their decision-making there (ie, head down as soon as the rain melted the ice coating) was still helpful. It's all information that could be useful sometime for me in the future. I have no idea when, or if, I will ever need to use it. But again, when an unexpected situation occurs in the mountains, decisions often need to be made very quickly, with no hemming and hawing. That requires a lot on the sub-conscious level, without a lot of thinking, and trusting your instincts. Gaining information, analyzing, processing, even judging - it's all adding to the database that might help me to deal with some future, unknown, situation, and that's a good thing.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Postby snowboardinco » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:19 pm

DeTour wrote:
snowboardinco wrote:The main lesson I am taking away from this(although the weather doesn't sound like something I would ascend longs in, I'm sure I'm a p**sy for that in MP world) is something I have heard before and already practice to ensure. And that is a complete non reliance on battery operated technology. The girls mentioned several times not knowing where to go due to a lack of a functioning GPS. This is not a critique on them because they did a lot of things very well. But more of a critique of technology in the wilderness. Orienteering is a basic skill no mountaineer/hiker/climber/nature walker/ bird watcher should be without. Again not criticizing the women because getting your bearings on top of an unknown mountain in a snowstorm is damn near impossible no matter how many summits you have.

You're still spewing misinformation when you should just apologize for arrogantly bashing them big time in the original thread, based on inaccurate assumptions. They mentioned that they didn't have the assistance of a GPS. That's completely different than "not knowing where to go" without one. Stating that one tool which might have helped was unavailable does not mean they were helpless without it. For all we know their orienteering skills might far exceed yours. I don't have firsthand knowledge of the Loft route, but isn't that Clark's Arrow exit considered a bit tricky to find in good conditions, much less in deteriorating weather?

I think it's time for you to man up and repeat these words after me: "I .... was ..... wrong."



Shut up Troll, no one cares about your self righteous ass. I offered a valid critique of many peoples strategy not just the women in this story. I also stand by everything I said in the previous thread, except they ended up not putting SAR members lives at risk. Something that is also extremely valid considering Colorado was using SAR teams from the surrounding states to cope with the ongoing flooding and I was concerned a rescue on longs would hamper rescue efforts of people not voluntarily putting themselves in need of rescue. Also review the account from the women, while they may not have used the exact phrase "we didnt know where to go without a GPS" they mentioned multiple times that navigation would be difficult or dangerous without their GPS. The fact that a GPS was ever considered a viable navigation tool for these women shows a lack of orienteering skills. Who on earth spends hundreds of dollars on a tool that can be dropped, broken, get wet, run out of batteries, "malfunction due to cloud cover"(as these women stated) when basic orienteering skills can suffer none of these fates. Who is spewing misinformation now?? suggesting that these east coast women who rely on technology have better orienteering skills then someone who has never used one and has never been lost. If they were so good at orienteering why didnt I hear the phrase "topo map" used once in their account?? A hand drawn map from a ranger?? Seriously, maybe you are right Detour, maybe they are far superior at navigating then myself. Maybe they know how to discern topographical features from hand drawn non scale maps. I wish someone would teach me that amazing backcountry skill!!

Not trying to sound like a bad ass here, but maybe you should get some first hand knowledge before you start acting like you know what you are talking about "I don't have firsthand knowledge of the Loft route, but isn't that Clark's Arrow exit considered a bit tricky to find in good conditions, much less in deteriorating weather? " They had no reason to ever go past clarks arrow and were looking for the wrong landmark if they were indeed looking for the arrow(sounds like that is still in question). They had two half way decent options for getting down and clarks arrow had nothing to do with it.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:24 pm

This topic just keeps on giving!
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Postby BeastoftheEast » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:15 pm

snowboardinco wrote:
DeTour wrote:
snowboardinco wrote:The main lesson I am taking away from this(although the weather doesn't sound like something I would ascend longs in, I'm sure I'm a p**sy for that in MP world) is something I have heard before and already practice to ensure. And that is a complete non reliance on battery operated technology. The girls mentioned several times not knowing where to go due to a lack of a functioning GPS. This is not a critique on them because they did a lot of things very well. But more of a critique of technology in the wilderness. Orienteering is a basic skill no mountaineer/hiker/climber/nature walker/ bird watcher should be without. Again not criticizing the women because getting your bearings on top of an unknown mountain in a snowstorm is damn near impossible no matter how many summits you have.

You're still spewing misinformation when you should just apologize for arrogantly bashing them big time in the original thread, based on inaccurate assumptions. They mentioned that they didn't have the assistance of a GPS. That's completely different than "not knowing where to go" without one. Stating that one tool which might have helped was unavailable does not mean they were helpless without it. For all we know their orienteering skills might far exceed yours. I don't have firsthand knowledge of the Loft route, but isn't that Clark's Arrow exit considered a bit tricky to find in good conditions, much less in deteriorating weather?

I think it's time for you to man up and repeat these words after me: "I .... was ..... wrong."



Shut up Troll, no one cares about your self righteous ass. I offered a valid critique of many peoples strategy not just the women in this story. I also stand by everything I said in the previous thread, except they ended up not putting SAR members lives at risk. Something that is also extremely valid considering Colorado was using SAR teams from the surrounding states to cope with the ongoing flooding and I was concerned a rescue on longs would hamper rescue efforts of people not voluntarily putting themselves in need of rescue. Also review the account from the women, while they may not have used the exact phrase "we didnt know where to go without a GPS" they mentioned multiple times that navigation would be difficult or dangerous without their GPS. The fact that a GPS was ever considered a viable navigation tool for these women shows a lack of orienteering skills. Who on earth spends hundreds of dollars on a tool that can be dropped, broken, get wet, run out of batteries, "malfunction due to cloud cover"(as these women stated) when basic orienteering skills can suffer none of these fates. Who is spewing misinformation now?? suggesting that these east coast women who rely on technology have better orienteering skills then someone who has never used one and has never been lost. If they were so good at orienteering why didnt I hear the phrase "topo map" used once in their account?? A hand drawn map from a ranger?? Seriously, maybe you are right Detour, maybe they are far superior at navigating then myself. Maybe they know how to discern topographical features from hand drawn non scale maps. I wish someone would teach me that amazing backcountry skill!!

Not trying to sound like a bad ass here, but maybe you should get some first hand knowledge before you start acting like you know what you are talking about "I don't have firsthand knowledge of the Loft route, but isn't that Clark's Arrow exit considered a bit tricky to find in good conditions, much less in deteriorating weather? " They had no reason to ever go past clarks arrow and were looking for the wrong landmark if they were indeed looking for the arrow(sounds like that is still in question). They had two half way decent options for getting down and clarks arrow had nothing to do with it.


"Not trying to sound like a bad ass here,"

No, not even close. You just sound like a dumb ass. ... Now go back to sleep already. Keep your lame butt in bed.
The beast is in all of us. And so is the best.
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Postby snowboardinco » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:55 pm

Going back to bed because beastoftheast is scary looking. See you all on Longs tomorrow whomever is going up!
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Re: 1st Hand Account of Women Stuck on Longs

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:42 am

I suppose I should lock this one, too...

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