Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

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sivadselim
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sivadselim » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:37 pm

Doug Shaw wrote:
sivadselim wrote:
Doug Shaw wrote:Three sequential shots from a gun means the same as three blasts from a whistle: "HELP!"

Personally, I don't think I will be heading to check out 3 sequential shots from a gun. Another story if I hear a whistle, though.


That's certainly your prerogative.

If I hear lots of gunfire obviously I won't respond if they fire three shots in the middle of a barrage of 100 other shots. If I hear three shots from silence, that will get my attention - but I might not respond immediately after a single blast of three shots. Usually it's not going to be ONLY three shots - just like a whistle blast, they will probably be repeating the signal as often as resources allow. Three shots, a few minutes pass, three shots, a few minutes pass, etc. If it's a repeated pattern that's a pretty clear signal, then you bet I'll be setting out to find them and attempting to reach out for more resources.

Right. Didn't mean to come off sounding aloof. If someone is trying to get my attention with a gun, they can probably succeed at doing so.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby 54summits » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:58 pm

snowmanco wrote:I'm really the only one who's concerned that he's thinking about carrying a gun on future hikes?! :shock:

I mean seriously, who uses a gun as a replacement for a whistle (besides track and field officials).


:?

#-o

Three things:

1) I never said I was taking a firearm with me on future hikes. You might have inferred that, and if you did, you were wrong. It is not at all what I said.

2) On 14er hikes, the potential need and use of a firearm is not nearly great enough to justify carrying it (in my mind).

3) I like the mountains the way they are -- politics-free. Pro-gun, anti-gun... Shut up and hike! :wink:

-54s
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby CO Native » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:56 pm

Well you certainly are a character. Don't get yourself killed, I look forward to reading more entertaining reports and watching the videos. :D
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sam » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:32 pm

tmathews-you wrote and (I am sorry I don't know how to reply direct to your question, so I copied and pasted)

I want to thank you for posting this. I know that there are a number of SAR members from various agencies who are members of 14ers.com (CO Native, K G Wright, tenpins, dfish -- and, of course, CCSARCAP -- just to name a few) and was hoping that someone who had responded to a SPOT SOS would chime-in. As a SPOT owner myself, I have been curious about how emergency and SAR officials are alerted and the logisitics of deployment. I have joked a few times with my climbing buddies about using the SPOT to get off of a mountain, but I promise you this: I will not use the SOS button unless I (or a member of my party) am injured and not capable of getting off of a mountain without the assistance of others. A question: If someone does press SOS and then cancels it, does he/she incur any indemnity costs? It can't be cheap to muster the manpower and resources for a search and recovery effort -- even if they hadn't officially deployed.

As a member of Mountain Rescue Aspen we have had several SPOT activations. Some have been legitimate calls for help, while others have been false alarms or mis activations (carry the SPOT in a tupperware container!). One of the biggest challenges we face is getting updates on positions sent from the activated SPOT. Obviously if is the same location each transmission then it is a no brainer, but we have had false alarms and injured or people someone in trouble continuing to move.

The problem is that It normally takes the folks from SPOT 15+ minutes or more to give us updated locations, often after we call them.

Ideally we would like to login in to your account and get real time locations (we don't care about anything else on your account). Our team has had several conversations with the folks at SPOT to solve this delay dilemma. Unfortunately they will not release personal login information but they have been trying to work on a solution but not luck as of yet.

Our suggestion is to make sure that someone on your alert list has permission to grant the sheriff and/or local SAR team access to your login and password information. This can save us and other SAR teams a ton of time.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby tmathews » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:37 pm

sam wrote:As a member of Mountain Rescue Aspen we have had several SPOT activations. Some have been legitimate calls for help, while others have been false alarms or mis activations (carry the SPOT in a tupperware container!). One of the biggest challenges we face is getting updates on positions sent from the activated SPOT. Obviously if is the same location each transmission then it is a no brainer, but we have had false alarms and injured or people someone in trouble continuing to move.

The problem is that It normally takes the folks from SPOT 15+ minutes or more to give us updated locations, often after we call them.

Ideally we would like to login in to your account and get real time locations (we don't care about anything else on your account). Our team has had several conversations with the folks at SPOT to solve this delay dilemma. Unfortunately they will not release personal login information but they have been trying to work on a solution but not luck as of yet.

Our suggestion is to make sure that someone on your alert list has permission to grant the sheriff and/or local SAR team access to your login and password information. This can save us and other SAR teams a ton of time.


Sam,

Thank you for this information. I will ensure that my alert list contacts have this information and that I implicitly release the information to SAR teams.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby sam » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:38 pm

Tmathews you also wrote:

A question: If someone does press SOS and then cancels it, does he/she incur any indemnity costs? It can't be cheap to muster the manpower and resources for a search and recovery effort -- even if they hadn't officially deployed.

Rescue is Colorado is always free (from the SAR teams). As Paul Woodward said, above, once you have activated please do not turn it off, we would like to contact you to make sure everything is okay
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby CO Native » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:41 pm

Our team has struggled with the same issues with SPOT. It doesn't make sense the only thing your account holds is info about your location. Which you'd think since an emergency button has been pressed that the info is OK to release to SAR. Anyway, I made my public page show all info so if I ever activate it anyone can go see my location.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby tmathews » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:16 pm

sam wrote:Tmathews you also wrote:

A question: If someone does press SOS and then cancels it, does he/she incur any indemnity costs? It can't be cheap to muster the manpower and resources for a search and recovery effort -- even if they hadn't officially deployed.

Rescue is Colorado is always free (from the SAR teams). As Paul Woodward said, above, once you have activated please do not turn it off, we would like to contact you to make sure everything is okay


Duly noted. I would feel extremely guilty about sending an SOS and then cancelling it, though. Not only for my emergency contacts -- but for SAR members as well.
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby 54summits » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:44 pm

I remember that there was a SPOT recall a while back - anyone know what the reason was?

As for carrying the SPOT in a Tupperware container, that comment makes me think that the recall was due to the exposure of the SOS button. The one I have (purchased, I assume, after the recall) has a plastic tab that snaps into place over the SOS button. The only it could be activated is if this was removed, and the SOS button was held down for several seconds.

Also, I don't know if this is new or not, but when I registered there was a section for additional information to be relayed to SAR personnel. I put in a physical description of myself (Hair/Eye/Skin color, height, weight, age) and blood type. I have no idea how much of this information reached SAR, but they definitely knew my name when they were getting ready to drop into the gully to find me.

Not related to SAR, it also has a tracking service (additional to the annual subscription) that transmits coordinates to a Google Map that I create through the SPOT website. I shared this with friends and family so they can follow me on my trips this way.

I don't know what was wrong with the SPOTs before, but everything I've seen makes me feel absolutely, 100% confident in it and the response system behind it.

-54s
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby X++ » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:09 am

coloradokevin wrote:
X++ wrote: However, I did some research on the web, and found that you have a 90% chance of surviving a lightning strike. So keep this in mind the next time you are caught in a storm.


Is there any chance that you can provide a link to some sources on this fact? I've recently been trying to research the mortality rate of lightning strikes, purely out of personal curiosity. I recall hearing that the current numbers say that most direct strikes are fatal, though I can't find a reliable source on that data.


For kicks, try google searching "chance of surviving lightning" (no quotes). I just got 11.2 million hits, and they all seem to say 80-90% survival rate. [Ironically, my post is on Page 3 of the google results, lol]

However, if you aren't comfortable with that route, the go to the NOAA webpage at:

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm

They have a chart called "Odds of Becoming a Lighting Victim". On that chart they show 600 people a year are struck by lightning in the US, and only 60 of them actually die ... therefore you have a 90% chance of survival.

If you want to get really crazy, try: http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/more.htm

Here you get a year by year record of people that have actually died, called out by Name, Location, and what they were doing when they got struck.

So far in 2010, only 1 person has been killed in Colorado ... his name was William Carr and he was riding a motorcycle. Also so far this year, only 1 person was killed hiking (her name was Bethany Lott, and she was in NC) -- you get the picture.

Most years they show less than 60 people dying, so maybe your odds are even better than 90%. But conservatively, you have a 80% to 90% chance of surviving a lightning strike.

The next realm of research is what exactly does kill you when you get struck by lightning. Here is a decent paper I dug up that explains in full analytical detail what happens when you get struck by lightning:

http://ws9.iee.usp.br/sipdax/papersix/sessao12/12.6.pdf

Happy researching!
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby snowmanco » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:18 am

Yeah, but what percentage gets super-powers?

/lightning party!
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Re: Abyss Lightning - Now that sounds like a memorable Bierstadt

Postby 54summits » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:01 am

snowmanco wrote:Yeah, but what percentage gets super-powers?

/lightning party!


Don't be a smart alec. [-X

Everybody knows you only get super-powers from exposure to extremely high levels of radiation. :wink:

That actually reminds me -- I need to add Yucca Mountain to my summit wish list...

-54s

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