Hmmmm... I've heard of many reasons people choose not to climb with a rope: "I climb faster without a rope"; "I enjoy the freedom of soloing"; "this is too easy for me so I don't need a rope". All these are fairly valid reasons. "I don't have much experience using ropes so I climb without one" doesn't strike me as particularly good.Vadim34 wrote:Thanks for the beta,I do agree about the rope and the rappel off the summit,don't have much experience using ropes however..maybe a lesson from the pros will be in a plan and then will give it a shot soon!!
P.S. Matt,really enjoying your web site since you have told me about it last year when I met you on Clinton,too bad your now in Oregon.
Climbing Dallas
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- polar
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Re: Climbing Dallas
"Getting to the bottom, OPTIONAL. Getting to the top, MANDATORY!" - The Wisest Trail Sign
- TallGrass
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Don't put words in his mouth.polar wrote: All these are fairly valid reasons. "I don't have much experience using ropes so I climb without one" doesn't strike me as particularly good.
I read HIS words as whether rapping would be something he'd need to learn or get comfortable with first, or if he could foregoe it. Many hikers don't have climbing gear like 60m rope, harness, ATC Guide, and locking HMS biner.
Also, a 30m rope might work for Dallas as you can rap to the chock stone then scramble down to a lower crack were there's another rap station. Know 30 will work the lower rap (used a 30m twin 8mm doubled over), but not positive for the upper (used a fisherman bend to join two 30m Randos to rap all the way in one go).
"A few hours' mountain climbing make of a rogue and a saint two fairly equal creatures.
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
- Vadim34
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Thank you TallGrass!
-polar...I never said that I prefer going without the ropes and if you get your ego out of your a...s and read my reply,you would see,that I am going to take a lesson on that.but thanks for your useless input anyways,"hotshot".
-polar...I never said that I prefer going without the ropes and if you get your ego out of your a...s and read my reply,you would see,that I am going to take a lesson on that.but thanks for your useless input anyways,"hotshot".
- polar
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Hotshot here! I like it. Well I may be an ass, but I am genuinely glad that you will take a class. I did read your reply, "maybe a lesson from the pros will be in a plan", and thought you meant "maybe I'll take a class in the future", but that could just be me not reading you correctly. Have fun!Vadim34 wrote:Thank you TallGrass!
-polar...I never said that I prefer going without the ropes and if you get your ego out of your a...s and read my reply,you would see,that I am going to take a lesson on that.but thanks for your useless input anyways,"hotshot".
"Getting to the bottom, OPTIONAL. Getting to the top, MANDATORY!" - The Wisest Trail Sign
- Vadim34
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Never called you an ass,but Iam always open to constructive feedback. Obviously you have lengthy rock experience,I enjoy it a lot also and do want to learn more!
This forum is so great for any kind of beta and or advice on almost anything!
Thank you for your well wishes, Hotshot!!!
This forum is so great for any kind of beta and or advice on almost anything!
Thank you for your well wishes, Hotshot!!!
- TallGrass
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Don't know where you'd find pro lessons, but many climbing gyms have certification classes before they will let you belay others there. Belaying and rappelling share a lot, the latter being simpler. You can also learn from other climbers, but ask not only what and how they do things, but why. You'll find differences, some situational, some trivial. If you need to gear up and bone up...Vadim34 wrote:don't have much experience using ropes however..maybe a lesson from the pros will be in a plan
Belay/Rappel Device: Black Diamond ATC-Guide
Simple enough for novice, versatile enough for experts. Pay the extra over a ATC or ATC-XP and move on.
Harness: BD Alpine Bod Naturally orients rap brake hand to butt cheek. Don't have to hop on one foot to put on.
Runner-Up: BD Couloir Light and packs small. Only two gear loops versus four, but also can be put on with both feet planted.
HMS/Pear Carabiner: DMM Aero HMS Quicklock (red one)
or Grivel Mega Twin Gate
or BD Rocklock Twist Gate (not screw)
If you use a Gri-Gri, DMM Rhino Quicklock (FYI, you can rap down a doubled over rope with a Gri-Gri like when cleaning an anchor if properly set up.)
Rope: Beal Rando, 30m with Golden Dry Durable light (37g/m) rope that will cover most raps and climbs on 14ers and Centennials (Teakettle, Bells Traverse, Dallas in two raps) without getting water-logged.
Knots to learn:
Double Overhand and Triple, as well as both methods (lasso and pass-thu-coil)
Figure Eight
and derivative knots like
Double Fisherman's Bend (bend means joining two rope ends)
Figure 8 Follow Through (see Safety, "Figure 8 Follow Through Stopped")
Some rappelling or abseiling (AHB-zile-ing) reading to get you started:
http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/how-to-rappel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wikihow.com/Rappel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://howtorappel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://climbing.about.com/od/cliimbingt ... lling1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DANGER: Probably the most common fatal rap error is rapping off the end of the rope(s) which is why many knot the end(s) of the rope or tie the ends together, especially if they can't see the bottom.
http://climbing.about.com/od/cliimbingt ... lling1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lastly, practice!
"A few hours' mountain climbing make of a rogue and a saint two fairly equal creatures.
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
- Vadim34
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Thank you for the great information.Very useful. I did think some gyms provided the lessons,maybe around Boulder,since it's such a popular spot for rock climbing.
I did summit a few mountains with the rope,but someone else led,and it wasn't of difficulty such as Dallas!
Iam looking forward to it.
I did summit a few mountains with the rope,but someone else led,and it wasn't of difficulty such as Dallas!
Iam looking forward to it.
- illusion7il
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Re: Climbing Dallas
I may have missed something in Tallgrass's replies, but lets be clear. You are going to need a 60 meter rope to do the standard rappel. I have 2 pics attached. The first one is taken from standing on the ledge with the car size boulder. I did not see a rap station between the summit and this point and I believe it is defiantly longer than 15 meters so a 30 meter rope would leave you hanging. The second pic is taken from below the car size boulder where I literally have no rope left.
The only way I could see rappelling with a 30 meter rope would be to down climb the upper portion of the N. face and rappel the crux pitch as there was a rap station set up there. Then you would most likely want to rap the "Deep gully" as there was a rap station set up there.
Finally, when choosing a harness, most places like REI are set up where you can put all of your weight on it. So choose one that you will be comfortable in.
The only way I could see rappelling with a 30 meter rope would be to down climb the upper portion of the N. face and rappel the crux pitch as there was a rap station set up there. Then you would most likely want to rap the "Deep gully" as there was a rap station set up there.
Finally, when choosing a harness, most places like REI are set up where you can put all of your weight on it. So choose one that you will be comfortable in.
- Attachments
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- 20150828_094657 (394x700).jpg (308.49 KiB) Viewed 2290 times
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- 20150828_095046 (450x800).jpg (321.36 KiB) Viewed 2290 times
- Vadim34
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Awesome info with great pictures..thank you!!
- TallGrass
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Re: Climbing Dallas
If you do the standard FULL-length rappel, yes, but one only need to rap down to the chockstone, scramble down to the bypass, then rap again from there. I know I used a 30m on Granite Peak (WY) and the raps felt longer than from Dallas' summit to the chockstone. Rapping through the hole is fun, but some might want to pack a 30m versus a 60m. Pretty sure a 30m will get you from the top to the block, but I didn't think to measure by halving one of the 30m ropes we used to measure. We paired our Randos and came to find out my yellow 30m was longer than his blue 30m. Oh well. Somehow ropes got twisted and I re-climbed, this time up Roach's "Chock It Up" from inside the chockstone gulley to the right. Left also goes, but at a higher class 5. Our final pitch (shown below) was maybe 20' right of the chockstone and might be the 5.7 route Roach describes.illusion7il wrote:I may have missed something in Tallgrass's replies, but lets be clear. You are going to need a 60 meter rope to do the standard rappel.
Added more beta here http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/peakstatu ... ecnum=5609 with a couple of its photos below.
Like your ledge pic, but that's looking straight up. I took a vert pano (need to stich a better one together later) standing farther back which gives better perspective. I was actually mulling this as a final pitch, and seem to recall a red/white anchor in that notch on the left. Weather was deteriorating (as you can tell) so didn't get to explore the tower as much as I wanted. We also traversed the lower cliff wall from Sneffels Highline then up a series of gullies until I could overlook the scree ridge what a view! We then worked around until I spotted the towers, the game was then on!
I see you went over the chockstone versus through the hole. We holed it with plenty of rope left. Can't speak to downclimbing the N. face as we didn't find it. Plenty of ways to skin-the-cat to gain the summit. Hmm... gathering more beta is certainly a good excuse to go back!
Personally, I've found so long as the waist size is right, most any harness is fine for rapping. Comfort and padding are more an issue for climbers who will be weighting it for a significant time, otherwise proper adjusting is sufficient for a rappel or belay up short pitches. Neither of us used padded harnesses.
"A few hours' mountain climbing make of a rogue and a saint two fairly equal creatures.
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
Tiredness is the shortest path to equality and fraternity - and sleep finally adds to them liberty."
-
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Re: Climbing Dallas
I don't mean to disparage the excellent equipment list posted by Tall Grass above, but note that the Beal Rando is a twin rope, i.e. it's fine for a rappel with the proper rap device, but should only be used with another twin rope when leading rock. OK, carry on.
-Tom
-Tom
- illusion7il
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Re: Climbing Dallas
Congrats on reaching the summit
Last edited by illusion7il on Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.