The cure for Frozen water?

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jdorje
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby jdorje » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:52 pm

Dave B wrote:Wind chill won't cause the tube to freeze any faster unless the outside is (continuously) wet (i.e. latent heat loss from evaporation). Although, wind may cause what little body heat is radiated to the tube by air contact to be convected away (but is probably a negligible amount anyways).


I don't want to argue with science, but I don't think that's true. Convection will increase the rate of temperature change of the tube.

What I assume you mean is, the "wind chill" temperature value is meaningless. If it's 33 degrees outside with a wind chill of -10, the water is not going to freeze.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby dannyg23 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:55 pm

http://shop.camelbak.com/mens-powderbak/d/1196_c_140_cl_1461

I'm going to experiment with something similar (home-made/cheaper) this winter, but I think this concept would work, and doesn't really add any weight.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Somewhat of a Prick » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:56 pm

dannyg23 wrote:http://shop.camelbak.com/mens-powderbak/d/1196_c_140_cl_1461

I'm going to experiment with something similar (home-made/cheaper) this winter, but I think this concept would work, and doesn't really add any weight.


Interesting concept!
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Dave B » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:01 pm

jdorje wrote:
Dave B wrote:Wind chill won't cause the tube to freeze any faster unless the outside is (continuously) wet (i.e. latent heat loss from evaporation). Although, wind may cause what little body heat is radiated to the tube by air contact to be convected away (but is probably a negligible amount anyways).


I don't want to argue with science, but I don't think that's true. Convection will increase the rate of temperature change of the tube.

What I assume you mean is, the "wind chill" temperature value is meaningless. If it's 33 degrees outside with a wind chill of -10, the water is not going to freeze.


Good point, I didn't really think about it that way, but you're right, there could be substantial heat loss from convection. Might have forgotten to engage the ol' think box today. #-o
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby GregMiller » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:08 pm

dannyg23 wrote:http://shop.camelbak.com/mens-powderbak/d/1196_c_140_cl_1461

I'm going to experiment with something similar (home-made/cheaper) this winter, but I think this concept would work, and doesn't really add any weight.


Looking at the side view, I can only imagine that being terribly uncomfortable with a pack on.

What I did last winter was wrap reflectix around my camelbak tube, blow the water back into the bladder, and keep the valve/mouthpiece tucked into my coat, and that worked pretty well. Occasionally I'd forget to tuck the valve/mouthpiece into my jacket, and it would freeze, but I was usually able to thaw it again without too much trouble.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby dannyg23 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:49 pm

GregMiller wrote:
Looking at the side view, I can only imagine that being terribly uncomfortable with a pack on.


Yeah... that's the issue I see too. I haven't tested it out yet but I've got the bladder situated on my lower back instead. I'm hoping with all the additional layers and what not it isn't too noticeable.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby speth » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:22 pm

Dave B wrote:
Somewhat of a Prick wrote:
One last anecdote, last November I had it on Mt. Massive and the car read 2 degrees at the trailhead. It made it summit and back without freezing.


Yeah, sorry, I don't doubt that your backpack insulates well. I've just had an entire tube freeze on a long day out while zipped closed in the shoulder strap, not having water for 6 hours on a cold Colorado blue bird day sucked. I'm, personally, just not willing to risk it again.


That's my experience - the reservoir is fine, it's the mouth piece and connector that ice up. I have a sleeve on it, and I'll blow air to clear the tube, but it's still a pain and ices over sometimes. Nalgene is the go to for me in the winter.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby jsdratm » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:29 pm

I used a camelbak for two years before ditching it for a regular nalgene bottle and one of the large rectangular nalgene bottles. I've found that I prefer the Nalgene bottles because I can always tell how much water I have and drink more water as a result. I had several occasions where my camelbak tube iced up and I wasn't able to drink any water through it. Also, when I was on my Mt. Whitney trip my camelbak leaked onto my gear and I had trouble getting everything dry since it was late in the day at Guitar Lake. It isn't worth the effort and risk to deal with a camelbak IMO.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby Bean » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:54 pm

It's really not worth the trouble in winter to keep a bladder working. Bottles are great and nearly stupid-proof.
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby globreal » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:53 pm

The cure for Frozen water?

Hike with ACERguy007. He packs his MSR Reactor stove in winter!

On our climb to Bull Hill, he just boiled some water to thaw out Otina's tube. Thanks Ryan!
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby goingup » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:54 pm

Dex wrote:
Water 002.JPG

Water 001.JPG


http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageName=Products&PageIndex=758

I constructed a sleeve for a Camelbak 100oz bladder out of reflectix. You can find it in Home Depot. It is bulky but I think most can find room in their pack for it. It doesn't weigh much - a few ounces 3? 4?

Velcro was used to close the top.

I tested it in a 90+ degree temps hike - loaded it up with ice, water and a little Gatorade - after 12+ hours the remaining water was still cold.

So ... will it work under winter conditions? I might give it a try.

The key with Camelbak in winter is to insulate the tube and blow the water back into the bladder after drinking. I've found the area near the bite valve to be the most susceptible to freezing.


I like when people engineer their own stuff (I may give this a try although I have an osprey bag).

I am thinking about attempting to make make my own split board. How hard could it be :-D
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Re: The cure for Frozen water?

Postby MountainHiker » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:02 pm

I've stayed with nalgenes. They ride upside down in my pack's water bottle pockets with a hand warmer under each one. I still get some ice, but I'm able to open the lids and drink what is still mostly water. With extra cold I've kept a bottle inside the pack with a body warmer.
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