Quandary Dog Sign Status

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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby Doug Shaw » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:57 am

climbingangler04 wrote:I totally disagree with you. The amount of traffic on a 14er (even a crowded one like Quandry) is not applicable to comparing that of the traffic in Denver - Not EVERYONE who hikes will want to place memoriam, but a few may and as long as the plaque/note/engraved stone is not getting in your way then why would you care (you being rhetorical, not meaning any disrespect to your opinion)?

Yes, the car analogy was just that - an analogy. But the problem is that we're not talking about the number of people on a 14er (or all the 14ers) at any single point in time, we're talking about it over years and decades. The way things have been going just in the last 10-15 years, the number of people climbing the 14ers is climbing (no pun intended).

Let's say just one person a year want to place a plaque or memorial on Quandary. How many plaques will there be in 50 years? In 100 years?

I just don't get how, if placed in a respectful manner and not in the middle of a trail and attracting attention, it would bother anyone.

If you're placing it somewhere where it is unobtrusive and "not attracting attention" - then what is the purpose of it? Besides, most people at least already get a memorial that's unobtrusive and not attracting attention - it's called a headstone on their grave. Those people who want to remember the deceased can go to the graveyard and do so. It is easier to reach and to those who want to remember them, the location of the memorial shouldn't make any difference to their ability to do so.

Don't misunderstand my argument here. I am not opposed to the occasional plaque. I am not advocating destruction or removal of memorials that are already out there, I just think that suggesting opening it up to the public at large to let anybody place a memorial anywhere they want would be less than ideal.
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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby JayMiller » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:35 am

I am always amazed at how emotional people get over animals. What are we really talking about here? A friendly dog that followed people on a trail and the trial just happened to go to Quandary summit. If Horton had lived next to any non 14er popular trailhead and accompanied hikers for a few miles before turning back to home, would anyone be trying to put up a plaque to him? I don’t think so. It’s not like Horton saved a two year old from drowning or dashed upstairs in a fire to wake the family. He was a friendly dog that liked people and happened to live next to Quandary trailhead. In my mind, that is not enough for a plaque that then sets a precedent for other plaques at other sites.
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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby Matt » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:59 am

Some ideas that throw a bone to both the LNT and the memorial madness crowds:

1. Create a portable Horton memorial that interested parties can carry up the trail and proselytize to anyone who will listen. Cover it with photos submitted by 14ers.com users, and leave a few open slots for the personal Horton moments captured by whoever has the plaque that day.
Those most passionate about this idea can be the keepers of said memorial and loan it out to anyone who wants to honor the pooch.
2. Make a facebook page about Horton. The legacy of Horton can go worldwide! I can't believe no one has done this already.

I wonder if the owners of the late pup are reading this, and if so, what their take would be? One would think such matters should arise from the ones to whom the dog was most important.
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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby Inky6900 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:14 am

I debated whether or not to post on this subject for many reasons. Mostly I want to make clear my comments are not intended to anger people or side-swipe them at all in any way. Hopefully people read this as it is intended - my personal take shared respectfully.

First, I really don't care if Horton ever gets a plaque or sign or whatever. I'm not emotionally tied to the situation. I never met him or climbed with him and he wasn't my dog. Secondly, I don't feel any other dog or pet for that matter should even be considered for a permanent plaque or memorial on any of Colorado's 14ers - and that includes my dog that I have a strong bond with and has climbed every single mountain I ever have. Lastly, I am not against plaques nor have I been offended when seeing them, but I will admit I typically am not in support of them when it comes to seeing them on the peaks.

My appreciation for Horton comes from a different perspective. The obvious is that I love dogs and have climbed with one for 11 years now. But that's still not enough for me to say, "Wow, I think Horton deserves a plaque!" Horton's amazing story is the reason I would not be offended if a plaque was placed at the trailhead on Quandary some day. I personally never have heard a story about a dog that climbed a peak because it was his choice. Every other dog, including mine, does it because their owner takes them along. It's not to say the that these dogs don't enjoy the climbs as much as Horton did, but it is different and everyone can see that. Also impressive to me is the fact that Horton climbed Quandary 1,000 or more times. I don't know of any person that has climbed a peak 1,000 times. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, I'm just saying it's a very unique story. And I'm still not saying that because I feel this way, that Horton deserves a plaque or a sign.

Another angle of this is the dogs versus people perspective. I have heard individuals say that because Horton "was just a dog" it's silly to consider a small plaque. I suppose those issues will always be in the eyes of the beholder and can never be settled. But for the record, there are hundreds of well-known memorials for dogs all around the globe - these include everything from plaques to even statues. Hachikō, an Akita that lived in Japan many years ago, waited everyday for 9 years at a train station for his owner after the owner had already died. A statue of him stands at that train station. Greyfriars Bobby was a terrier that spent 14 years guarding the grave of his owner. This dog also has a statue. Maybe those memorials shouldn't be there because it was "just a dog." I don't know. I'm not offended by dogs being memorialized but I will readily admit that these two examples are not placed on mountains or in a national forest areas.

Lastly, I think it is important to address the Leave No Trace policy we all hopefully do our best to follow. I can see why LNT becomes a point of concern in this issue. Instead of opening up all kinds of issues within LNT I will simply say I understand where people are coming from on this and I understand why they are concerned. Also, as stated earlier, I typically to do not support plaques on mountains. I can only image all the legal issues that would arise with leaving a permanent mark on forest service lands even if every single person really wanted to see a plaque for Horton.

Again, personally I don't care if Horton ever gets a plaque at the Quandary trailhead and I'm not going to fight about it. Life has too many troubles already and it's never worth attempting to tear down others opinions while building up your own. Doing so seems petty and pathetic. I simply wanted to post this because I don't think it's silly or stupid that this whole discussion came up to begin with.

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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby highpilgrim » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:25 am

JayMiller wrote: It’s not like Horton saved a two year old from drowning or dashed upstairs in a fire to wake the family

On this score, I think you're at least partly wrong. I've heard a number of people relate that they think that dog may have saved their lives by helping them find their way down the mountain in adverse condtions...

Not that I'm arguing for the plaque; I'm not. Just giving due credit to a pretty cool pooch...
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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby mly-lvr » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:32 am

You want a sign? Put it on your wall at home remembering our four legged friend.
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Re: Quandary Dog Sign Status

Postby Fiemus » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:52 am

Inky6900 wrote: I can only image all the legal issues that would arise with leaving a permanent mark on forest service lands even if every single person really wanted to see a plaque for Horton.

Knowing the resistance and legal hurdles that had to be overcome to have two warning signs put at the Quandary THs, I can definitively state that someone would not find it easy to put a memorial plaque anywhere on FS land up there. The only possible exception to that may be putting something on the existing East Ridge TH parking lot notice board (which would surely not aggravate the LNT advocates).

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