Marking Crestone Needle Gully Crossover

[CHeimCO]

I really like Bill's cairn cap idea. It incorporates the bright color of a painted rock (please not patriots red, maybe Seahawks green? lol), is not as obtrusive as a sign and is built upon the foundation of the current practice.

Many people have suggested they would support marking a "few" difficult and dangerous locations. This begs an interesting question:

In addition to The Needle gully crossover, what other "standard route" 14er locales are worthy of such respect?

[polar]

Only nudies and she'd be mad if I posted them

No need to post them, just bring them to Earth Treks tomorrow.

[Brian C]

...In addition to The Needle gully crossover, what other "standard route" 14er locales are worthy of such respect?...

I still don't quite understand why any of these routes need to be marked, especially with the extreme overabundance of highly detailed route information available. It really seems clear to me that people simply need to learn the difference between 3rd, 4th and 5th class. If you're on a class 3 route and your doing class 5 then you're in the wrong spot and need to turn around, look around and find the proper way.

Reminds me of when I did Nokhu Crags a few years ago. I had been afraid of doing it due to the few reports of terrible, loose and challenging terrain on a class 3 route. When I finally went up there, I was surprised that there was a very simple way all the way to the top. Sure it involved some route finding, backtracking, rereading the route description, looking for cairns (knowing some were likely misleading) and general nosing around, but there was indeed a class 3 route to be had by taking the time to look even though harder terrain appeared inviting in places. It seems like people are just wandering into harder terrain because they either are not taking the time to really investigate the route (blind faith in foot paths or cairns?) or that they lack basic route finding skills.

Putting a sign, cairn, paint or whatever may help avert some tragedy but will also only bolster a sense of safety and security in lesser experienced hikers. Makes me think of a guy I know that teaches avalanche classes that talks about the most dangerous people are the ones who travel in avy terrain and "get lucky" a few times simply because it bolsters their confidence and false feelings of safety which encourages them to get out into that terrain more often. For example, I would think it likely that a hiker well versed in class 2 who has never done class 3 could get up and down Longs Peak by following the bullseyes would go home feeling much more confident in their ability to navigate class 3 terrain on other mountains. I guess what I'm saying is that putting a sign on the Needle could make less accidents on the Needle, but would potentially increase the number of accidents in similar locations on other class 3 routes.

EDIT: Anybody remember that app that you could hold up to scroll around and look at the mountains around with labels? Maybe some tech savy person could do something like that that could put a route line over the view through the camera on your phone. Then people who don't want to do any route finding could use that and then people who want the mountain uncluttered don't have to use it. Win win?

[BillMiddlebrook]

"14ers Go!"
Like Pokemon Go, we'd have idiots staring at their phones and not paying attention

[forwardbias]

A huge Karen marking the spot would do just fine.

hahaha just some large woman paid to sit there and say "Go that way" every time people climb up.

[DeTour]

"14ers Go!"
Like Pokemon Go, we'd have idiots staring at their phones and not paying attention

... and then stuff like this will happen: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/07/20/ ... l-car.html

[beburke30]

A huge Karen marking the spot would do just fine.

hahaha just some large woman paid to sit there and say "Go that way" every time people climb up.

I had a hearty chuckle when I first read that as well.

[XterraRob]

A huge Karen marking the spot would do just fine.

hahaha just some large woman paid to sit there and say "Go that way" every time people climb up.

Or she can be the gatekeeper and have us answer three questions in order to proceed.

[Monte Meals]

What about a simple "cairn cap?"

I know a lot of 14er members are concerned that
this might make the standard routes seem too safe -
so how about A Modest Proposal.

Put a small target on the top of each Carin Cap.
The object is to score points by being the first
in your group to "plink" the target with you open
carry pistol.

Increased safety problem - SOLVED !
Increased number of Olympic Biathlon Team
members from 14ers.com - YES !

[Bullwinkle]

A quality altimeter can help a lot at that crossover, as well as snapping a picture of the shape of the crossover opening. I always carry a large piece of white chalk for I (continue); -- (stop). Did not use it soloing this route, but I keep it in my pack anyway in case I run into a really difficult decision point. A small, white chalk mark will not last long in the mountain weather.

[rob runkle]

I do think that people need to have a certain level of skill before attempting something like the Needle. And, that includes being able to route find, and more importantly, being able to realize when your route has turned into something that is more than it is rated. I've been known to continue into known bad terrain, but only when I knew that I had the option of backtracking. I still had the energy and clear head to be able to backtrack if I needed to. I had a "safety factor."

Having said that, I do think that putting a sign at the exact turn is just asking for people to climbing without keeping a "safety factor." However, it would be reasonable to put a sign further down the wrong gully saying, "Hey dude, try again." Or something to the point of letting them know that they screwed up, and need to backtrack. Before they get themselves into too much trouble. The major risk, I suppose is that they sign is visible from above and people try going towards the sign. Would have to be considered in placement.

[Jim Davies]

Do climbers really deserve to die if they miss one turn, when we could (mostly) fix the problem with a simple marker? The design of the marker is almost irrelevant - think Clark's Arrow. A little paint and Custer County S&R can stay home with their families a few more times per year.