Re: MRA at Maroon Bells
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:24 pm
Plus you get the folks that think it's some kind of 'mountain art' and so they start building them in random places because they think cairn are pretty.
I remember plenty of bad cairns leading to dead-ends on the Bells traverse 20 or so years ago so I'm not sure it's a new thing.CO Native wrote:It's not so much about cheating as it is realizing that cairns are pretty unreliable. Anyone can build one any where they want, and unfortunately they do. If it's about cheating I'd say it was more of an issue 15 years ago before climbing the 14ers became so popular. If you saw a cairn then, odds were pretty good it was guiding you the right way. Now it seems it's more likely they are built off route than on.
Comments:Scott P wrote:
Very recently, someone died in Zion rappelling in the Subway using a non standard anchor. Someone had left an anchor (a rappel sling around a log) off the standard route at a waterfall and someone else whom came along used it and died. Very tragic. The person whom left the anchor came foreward in a forum, but really got chastised. He had left it in order to do a more challenging rappel directly through the waterfall. Still, it wasn't his fault someone died using it.[/i]
If you're talking about the 74 year old man that died last month (Yoshio Hosobuchi), I'd like to offer a bit of clarification. The issue wasn't with a non-standard anchor; slings off of logjams and debris are quite standard in canyoneering (as are even sketchier raps off of bags of water or sand when 'ghosting' a canyon - coming from a climbing background myself, many common anchors feel bizarrely unsafe compared to the SERENE anchors you learn in alpine rock/snow courses).
Yes; that's the exact incident.If you're talking about the 74 year old man that died last month (Yoshio Hosobuchi), I'd like to offer a bit of clarification.
Yes, that's what I mean by cairns, guidebooks, rappel slings, and the forest service aren’t really what is killing people and it’s always tragic when someone dies, but sometimes you can’t just point fingers or blame to things that may have some contribution, but aren’t the real problem. The person whom left the anchor was blamed, but it wasn’t his fault (as you point out).The issue wasn't with a non-standard anchor;
Of course. (PS, I’m Scott Patterson, the guy on the cover of those canyoneering guidebooks/websites/etc. )slings off of logjams and debris are quite standard in canyoneering
Yep. Just did Quandary direct with Tom Jones a week ago.(as are even sketchier raps off of bags of water or sand when 'ghosting' a canyon - coming from a climbing background myself, many common anchors feel bizarrely unsafe compared to the SERENE anchors you learn in alpine rock/snow courses).
Who says they're not?YouAndWhatGendarme wrote:Plus you get the folks that think it's some kind of 'mountain art' and so they start building them in random places because they think cairn are pretty.
Off topic, but did you put out a guidebook and do you have a website? Where can I find them?Of course. (PS, I’m Scott Patterson, the guy on the cover of those canyoneering guidebooks/websites/etc. )
I have written a guidebook, but it has to do with mountains rather than canyons.Off topic, but did you put out a guidebook and do you have a website? Where can I find them?